View Poll Results: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

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  • No - Not under any circumstances ever

    5 10.87%
  • No - Not under the circumstances given (please explain)

    4 8.70%
  • Yes - If the law required the rape to be reported immediately

    11 23.91%
  • Yes - As long as the rape is reported in a timely manner

    14 30.43%
  • Other

    12 26.09%
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Thread: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

  1. #101
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think you are misunderstanding. There is nothing wrong with working. However that person being restricted in their possibilities due to their life circumstances and being forced, because of those circumstances, to life an unhappy life is worse than death.

    This goes back to environment. If a person was otherwise aborted, but instead was forced to live in a hostile environment where the mother either does not want the child or cannot care for the child to the point where that child's options are limited than we are harming that child.
    Forced to live, but still living. Better than death. Why do so many poor people not kill themselves? You think they ain't got the means? No, it's because that even if their life sucks and is hard; it's still life. It's better than the alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My only point is if abortion was illegal than we now have a responsibility to nurture those children and give them a real chance at happiness. And yes, that falls on the great society if the mother is unfit for whatever reason.
    This just seems to be the standard sort of rallying against biology thing. If I had no hand in a woman being pregnant, I hold no responsibility to the child. The only "responsibility" society has is to ensure the rights and liberties of the individual; everything else is left to the individual. Sure, we can work to restore free market capitalism, to restore economic mobility, to allow fair and open participation in the system. But that's about it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #102
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You're in the same crowd as megaprogman, and it's an entirely irrational outlook. Basically you're equating living in a less than ideal home as being equivalent to death. Even foster care is better than death.
    I think death is more a neutral state than a 'good' or 'bad' one. So I don't really think anyone can honestly say that anything is really 'better than death'. There's existence and non-existence. Non-existence is pretty neutral.

  3. #103
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You're in the same crowd as megaprogman, and it's an entirely irrational outlook. Basically you're equating living in a less than ideal home as being equivalent to death. Even foster care is better than death.
    No. I'm suggesting there is simply no way to ensure that a woman will bring a healthy pregnancy to term if she doesn't want it...And maybe we should stop trying to force it.

  4. #104
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    No. I'm suggesting there is simply no way to ensure that a woman will bring a healthy pregnancy to term if she doesn't want it...And maybe we should stop trying to force it.
    I don't think that is proper logic. Because people are going to continually try to do all sorts of things, but that in and of itself doesn't mean that we should allow the behavior.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #105
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think that is proper logic. Because people are going to continually try to do all sorts of things, but that in and of itself doesn't mean that we should allow the behavior.
    So, how far are you willing to allow the government to go to force a pregnant woman to carry her pregnancy to term without endangering the fetus?

    As a libertarian, I would imagine...not very far.

  6. #106
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Forced to live, but still living. Better than death. Why do so many poor people not kill themselves? You think they ain't got the means? No, it's because that even if their life sucks and is hard; it's still life. It's better than the alternative.
    Honestly, I don't understand your position at all and all I can say is that those people have found something to life for. When I was in that position, I know I had to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This just seems to be the standard sort of rallying against biology thing. If I had no hand in a woman being pregnant, I hold no responsibility to the child. The only "responsibility" society has is to ensure the rights and liberties of the individual; everything else is left to the individual. Sure, we can work to restore free market capitalism, to restore economic mobility, to allow fair and open participation in the system. But that's about it.
    To me this is an immoral position.

    As a side note: I was subjected to some pretty awful stuff growing up and I find myself continually flashing on those memories as I post. Perhaps this is linked to my position on this question and is the course of of my particular outlook. I am not sure.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-23-10 at 11:57 AM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This just seems to be the standard sort of rallying against biology thing. If I had no hand in a woman being pregnant, I hold no responsibility to the child.
    Except to force her to give birth to it...?

  8. #108
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Part of me has started to believe that maybe it is better to allow the species to self-select NOT to carry out pregnancies. Genetically speaking, isn't this a form of self-selected "thinning the herd"?

  9. #109
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    Cool Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Except to force her to give birth to it...?
    Expecting her to respect it's rights is not tantamount to forcing her to do anything.

    When (and if) she consented to have intercourse, she placed the burden on herself (as did the father.)

  10. #110
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I agree.

    The child is not (sexually) raping the woman in this example. But it is using her body against her will,... placing her life, health and well being in danger,... and it's doing so as a result of no fault of either the woman's nor the child's actions.
    Many abortionist argue that is what the child(although abortionist use "fetus" or some other term to dehumanize the child) is doing that regardless if the mother engaged in sex for pleasure or was raped.
    That's not the case in an act of consentual sex that results in a pregnancy.
    Many abortionist argue that consensual sex is not a consent for pregnancy.


    As far as the expectation that the pregnancy is not going to "end the mother's life?"

    Her right to defend herself is not predicated on the fact or certainty of death. She has a right to protect herself from being "seized" by another in any way,.... UNLESS she consented.
    Once she consents,.. she waves her rights to expel them (within reason) and unless they violate her rights in another way,... She has to live with the consequence of the choice she made.

    So the baby is now a parasite?(abortionist usually compare an unborn child to a parasite) That baby is now assaulting the woman? The baby is innocent, the baby did not rape the mother nor is the baby going to cause her to die.So there is no reason or justification for taking the life of an innocent human being. The fact that child is a product of rape is irrelevant.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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