View Poll Results: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

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  • No - Not under any circumstances ever

    5 10.87%
  • No - Not under the circumstances given (please explain)

    4 8.70%
  • Yes - If the law required the rape to be reported immediately

    11 23.91%
  • Yes - As long as the rape is reported in a timely manner

    14 30.43%
  • Other

    12 26.09%
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Thread: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

  1. #91
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Honestly, I am not sure that it is. If I lived a life where I had few choices and there was a very strong possibility that the best I could do was work at McDonalds and had no real chance at happiness or fulfillment, I would wish I hadn't been born. Life is as valuable as we can make it to be, no more. We are the judge of our own value though.

    However, if that was my life, on balance, I think nonexistence would be preferable.
    I'm not going to lie; that's pretty ****ed up right there. Being dead is permanent, there's no happy happy fun place to romp around in afterward. Dead is dead. My adviser's mother is suffering greatly from Alzheimer, but even she prefers to be alive. But at the very least, I think that decision should at least be up to the individual, not you. Someone can be born into the life and decide whether or not it's better to be alive or dead. Saying that allowing the abortion because you think hard life to be life not worth living is overstepping some boundaries there. At the very least, leave it up to the individual; you shouldn't be trying to play god.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #92
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm not going to lie; that's pretty ****ed up right there. Being dead is permanent, there's no happy happy fun place to romp around in afterward. Dead is dead. My adviser's mother is suffering greatly from Alzheimer, but even she prefers to be alive. But at the very least, I think that decision should at least be up to the individual, not you. Someone can be born into the life and decide whether or not it's better to be alive or dead. Saying that allowing the abortion because you think hard life to be life not worth living is overstepping some boundaries there. At the very least, leave it up to the individual; you shouldn't be trying to play god.
    My take on life is that it is a neutral fact. It can be good or it can be bad based on what happens to a person during their lifetime and how that individual processes those events. But I agree, it is a bad thing to make that decision for someone, however I don't consider a fetus to be a full human being so I see the rules being slightly different there. Once the child is born however, society should bend over backwards to give that child as many opportunities as possible to life a happy and fulfilling life.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-23-10 at 11:28 AM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My take on life is that it is a neutral fact. It can be good or it can be bad based on what happens to a person during their lifetime. But I agree, it is a bad thing to make that decision for someone, however I don't consider a fetus to be a full human being so the I see the rules being slightly different there.
    Removing the humanity of the victim is a time honored tradition in removal of guilt. Yet convenient definitions do not change reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Once the child is born however, society should bend over backwards to give that child as many opportunities as possible to life a happy and fulfilling life.
    No it shouldn't. There's no guarantee on a happy happy, no work life. It may be ****ty, it may be superb given serendipity of birth. It's up to the parents and the individual to make a good life for themselves and their children. Not society at large. Life, liberty, property.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would imagine it would be to save the life of the child. Perhaps you've worked with kids who "should never have been born"; but less you can identify that in the womb you'd have to take innocent life as innocent life and not cast judgment till that child grew up and made decisions and actions.
    If the mother doesn't want the child, that's a pretty good predictor right there. If the mother would rather kill the child than bring it into the world, what are the child's odds at that point?

    The pro-abortion crowd always seems to assume, "If we can just get these kids borned, everything will be a-okay." But consider...if the mother desperately doesn't want to bring a child into the world, is that mother even going to take proper care of the fetus throughout the pregnancy? Or, is that mother going to abuse alcohol, abuse drugs, attempt to force her body to abort? And how do you control for that? Are you going to prosecute women for not caring for their unborn fetus properly? Are you going to put them in prison? Force feed them against their will? How far are you willing to go to protect a 3 week old clump of cells?

    Folks...we don't even have the resources to take care of the children we give birth to in this country. We have one of the highest rates of infanticide in the world. We have low birth weights, high rates of child abuse.

    So, how many resources are you prepared to spend to force women to pursue a pregnancy they don't want?

    I get that it's a terrible thing. But isn't the alternative worse?

    I mean, we're going to make an exception for rape, but we're going to force a woman to carry a child inside her for months? Isn't that just another kind of rape?

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Removing the humanity of the victim is a time honored tradition in removal of guilt. Yet convenient definitions do not change reality.
    This is purely an intellectual exercise for me since I will never be pregnant so there is no possibility I could feel guilty as I would not be performing or agreeing to the act of abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No it shouldn't. There's no guarantee on a happy happy, no work life. It may be ****ty, it may be superb given serendipity of birth. It's up to the parents and the individual to make a good life for themselves and their children. Not society at large. Life, liberty, property.
    Honestly that is probably why I could never accept libertarianism. Throwing sometimes helpless people out to fend for themselves to what is often a hostile society to me is the ultimate cruelty.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-23-10 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If the mother doesn't want the child, that's a pretty good predictor right there. If the mother would rather kill the child than bring it into the world, what are the child's odds at that point?

    The pro-abortion crowd always seems to assume, "If we can just get these kids borned, everything will be a-okay." But consider...if the mother desperately doesn't want to bring a child into the world, is that mother even going to take proper care of the fetus throughout the pregnancy? Or, is that mother going to abuse alcohol, abuse drugs, attempt to force her body to abort? And how do you control for that? Are you going to prosecute women for not caring for their unborn fetus properly? Are you going to put them in prison? Force feed them against their will? How far are you willing to go to protect a 3 week old clump of cells?

    Folks...we don't even have the resources to take care of the children we give birth to in this country. We have one of the highest rates of infanticide in the world. We have low birth weights, high rates of child abuse.

    So, how many resources are you prepared to spend to force women to pursue a pregnancy they don't want?

    I get that it's a terrible thing. But isn't the alternative worse?

    I mean, we're going to make an exception for rape, but we're going to force a woman to carry a child inside her for months? Isn't that just another kind of rape?
    You know how it kills me to agree with you on anything, but I do.....
    I have seen the effects of FAS first hand & it ain't pretty.....
    An unwanted pregnancy should be terminated at the discretion of the impregnated, no matter the circumstance.....
    There is no presumptive 'right to life' until AFTER birth......

  7. #97
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If the mother doesn't want the child, that's a pretty good predictor right there. If the mother would rather kill the child than bring it into the world, what are the child's odds at that point?

    The pro-abortion crowd always seems to assume, "If we can just get these kids borned, everything will be a-okay." But consider...if the mother desperately doesn't want to bring a child into the world, is that mother even going to take proper care of the fetus throughout the pregnancy? Or, is that mother going to abuse alcohol, abuse drugs, attempt to force her body to abort? And how do you control for that? Are you going to prosecute women for not caring for their unborn fetus properly? Are you going to put them in prison? Force feed them against their will? How far are you willing to go to protect a 3 week old clump of cells?

    Folks...we don't even have the resources to take care of the children we give birth to in this country. We have one of the highest rates of infanticide in the world. We have low birth weights, high rates of child abuse.

    So, how many resources are you prepared to spend to force women to pursue a pregnancy they don't want?

    I get that it's a terrible thing. But isn't the alternative worse?

    I mean, we're going to make an exception for rape, but we're going to force a woman to carry a child inside her for months? Isn't that just another kind of rape?
    You're in the same crowd as megaprogman, and it's an entirely irrational outlook. Basically you're equating living in a less than ideal home as being equivalent to death. Even foster care is better than death.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #98
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Honestly that is probably why I could never accept libertarianism. Throwing sometimes helpless people out to fend for themselves to what is often a hostile society to me is the ultimate cruelty.
    It's not throwing helpless people out to fend for themselves. And what are you talking about? Making someone work for his bread is now worse than advocating the death of that person? Please.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not throwing helpless people out to fend for themselves. And what are you talking about? Making someone work for his bread is now worse than advocating the death of that person? Please.
    I think you are misunderstanding. There is nothing wrong with working as it is a necessity brought on us by existence and the fact of limited resources. However that person being restricted in their possibilities due to their life circumstances and being forced, because of those circumstances, to live an unhappy life is worse than death.

    This goes back to environment. If a person was otherwise aborted, but instead was forced to live in a hostile environment where the mother either does not want the child or cannot care for the child to the point where that child's options are limited than we are harming that child.

    My only point is if abortion was illegal than we now have a responsibility to nurture those children and give them a real chance at happiness. And yes, that falls on the greater society if the mother is unfit for whatever reason. We have taken that choice from the mother and we must help her in that responsibility that we thrust on her.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-23-10 at 11:45 AM.

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    Cool Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    And the Dungen Mod succeeds in completely derailing the thread.



    What a (expletive omitted) shame.

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