View Poll Results: Will he keep his promise

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  • Yes

    26 57.78%
  • No

    14 31.11%
  • Other

    5 11.11%
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Thread: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

  1. #11
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Irrelevant really to the discussion.

    Backman and 11 others believed from their reading of the bill and their aides reading of the Bill that its ambiguity regarding language concerning abortion left open the possability for interpritation by congress or agencies to allow for federal money to go towards abortion services.

    To win their votes Obama promised to put forward an Executive Order closing the loophole THEY believe to be there.

    THIS THREAD's topic isn't rather or not the Health Care Bill allowed for federal money to go to abortion services, but whether or not Obama will keep his promise that won the votes needed to pass the health care reform or if he'll end up backing out of it now that the votes are cast.
    So then in other words Obama has to make good on a promise for an issue which there is no justification for other than 'Backman and 11 others' say so. Good to know this isn't a real debate and just Zyphlin supporting claims which have no basis other than 'Backman and 11 others' say so. No. Obama shouldn't have to bend down to the wishes of 12 members of Congress.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then in other words Obama has to make good on a promise for an issue which there is no justification for other than 'Backman and 11 others' say so. Good to know this isn't a real debate and just Zyphlin supporting claims which have no basis other than 'Backman and 11 others' say so. No. Obama shouldn't have to bend down to the wishes of 12 members of Congress.
    First, my apologizes, I meant Stupak not Backman.

    Second, it seems you think the promises was stupid to make in the first place because he was promising to do something you're suggesting was already prevented in the bill. In which case, if your aim wasn't instead to just come in and derail my thread, you would've focused on Obama's error in making said promise and thus putting himself in the discussion. You know, since hte thread is about the promise and not whether or not abortion is funded by the bill.

    Third, this is a debate, based on facts. The fact that Obama promised Stupak and his 11 congressmen that he'd do this executive order, which according to Stupak caused the vote switch. A vote switch mind you that was the difference between passing and not passing. Just because you're pathetically attempting to errect a strawman to take away from the conversation doesn't mean there isn't a conversation. Whether or not abortion services could be funded by this bill is irrelevant save for use in the argument that Obama shouldn't have made the promise in the first case. However, the facts of this manner is that Obama did make said promise and it is that promise we're discussing.

    If you'd actually like to discuss your belief as to whether or not Obama will make good on said promise or some other line of reasoning connected directly to him making said promise and potentially keeping it or not, feel free. If you'd like to continue to attempt to derail it through your strawmans then I'd ask you to take it elsewhere.

  3. #13
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I have no reason to doubt he will make the executive order. It would be incredibly foolish politically not to.
    I actually wonder about this and if it would actually be more political advantageous of him to do it. If my memory serves me Stupak and his supposed 11 were from relatively conservative districts to begin with, and I think many were in states Obama carried last election. He has a portion of his base extremely upset with him potentially doing the signing statement. Also, because its being done in a signing statement and not actually inserted into the law its questionable on how concrete it will actaully be, likely winning him little favors from the conservative side as well.

    He's painting himself into a damned if you do, damned if you don't corner in the name of getting his health care bill passed. However, I almost think more harm will come to him in doing the signing statement then not doing it.

    However, it will be devestating to Stupak and the others that were part of his band. However I imagine they're likely done for either way.

  4. #14
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I actually wonder about this and if it would actually be more political advantageous of him to do it. If my memory serves me Stupak and his supposed 11 were from relatively conservative districts to begin with, and I think many were in states Obama carried last election. He has a portion of his base extremely upset with him potentially doing the signing statement. Also, because its being done in a signing statement and not actually inserted into the law its questionable on how concrete it will actaully be, likely winning him little favors from the conservative side as well.

    He's painting himself into a damned if you do, damned if you don't corner in the name of getting his health care bill passed. However, I almost think more harm will come to him in doing the signing statement then not doing it.

    However, it will be devestating to Stupak and the others that were part of his band. However I imagine they're likely done for either way.
    I think the number who will be upset with him doing the executive order would be far fewer than those who would be upset if he did not, and for him lying. I am about as pro abortion rights as they come, and I would be highly pissed if he ended up lying on this. I don't think it was necessary to prevent the funding being used for abortions, but when you say you will do something to get people to vote, you damn sure better deliver.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Not signing, or later rescinding on the order would be political suicide for him. There is no way he could get reelected after such a slap in the face to pro-lifers (who are not just conservative, but also independents and some dems), there would also be no way of escaping the scale of this particular double cross. No, the Exec order is a done deal, and Obama won't be rescinding it, at least not in his first term, the above reasoning falls apart some considering potential actions of an unconcerned lame duck in his second term - even then it is a huge longshot, one I would never lay money on.

    looking even further into the future, it would be completely unthinkable for any Republican Pres to undo, that will never happen sans legislation rendering the order a moot point, and there again would be a slim possibility of some future Dem President possibly unding the exec order under a hailstorm of criticism, and frankly this is just a stupid waste of political capitol if he did so, so very, very unlikely there as well.

    This executive order is not as tenuous as people are trying to make it out to be, now as far as efficacy. I do not know, nor will I weigh in on that, since I do not know, and have no dog in this particular race.
    Last edited by marduc; 03-22-10 at 12:13 PM.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Stupak, as many on the right have suggested all month long, has waived not based on any definitive change or measure but on a PROMISE (cause Obama or the Senate has never broken one of those) that something would be done. That promise, according to the NYT's:



    So my question to everyone is simple. Will Obama actually make good on the promise of this executive order, yes or no?
    I voted other. I think those who took his word were fools for doing so. But at the same time if a executive order meant anything Obama would not have needed any of the senators and congressmen to pass the so called health care reform bill and he would have lifted the DADT and all the other **** he promised to do.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  7. #17
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Stupak, as many on the right have suggested all month long, has waived not based on any definitive change or measure but on a PROMISE (cause Obama or the Senate has never broken one of those) that something would be done. That promise, according to the NYT's:



    So my question to everyone is simple. Will Obama actually make good on the promise of this executive order, yes or no?
    How can he issue such an executive order if the legislature has it in there that it can be used for such procedure?

    I'm getting real sick of the executive orders, they've defacto granted the executive legislative powers; and that's a bad thing.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Oh he'll keep his promise. Just only in a secretly snide and vindictive way.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Considering he broke his promise of transparency with this bill, I guess it would be only natural for him to not execute the executive order ...

  10. #20
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    Re: Who believes Obama will make this executive order

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Stupak and 11 others believed
    Who are the eleven others? Anyone know?

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