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Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

Who'll Be Watching the House Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
RightinNYC said:
So in response to my point that the number of uninsured people will remain at 50 million for the next four years, you're copy pasting a list that essentially reiterates the entirely non-responsive points made by ADK Forever?
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It seems you missed (again) the folks that would be covered beginning this year.

It has been interesting though to see the conservative debate change during the year from, there is no-way/no-how this bill will pass, to, it doesn't go far enough, fast enough.
 
RightinNYC said:
And yet despite all that, the CBO says that the number of uninsured people will remain at 50 million for the next four years. So either the CBO is full of idiots, or maybe, just maybe, those provisions won't have the impact on the number of uninsured that you think they will.
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My "paste" was disputing your terribly inaccurate statement: "It also doesn't make health care a right, decrease the number of uninsured until 2014, or do much of anything to control overall health care costs.". I proved how upon the president signing this bill the number of uninsured would indeed DECREASE.

Instead of instructing me how I should respond to your statements perhaps you should try to READ and COMPREHEND before you go off with your lessons.

edit: Rather than copy-pasting entire chunks from other articles, why don't you only include the relevant things? Unless of course you're arguing that a 10% tax on suntanning will prompt people to go out and sign up for health insurance.
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If you would give any thought to other people on here having different, and more accurate, information than you have maybe you would be more open to being... wrong. Which you are. :2wave:
 
Catawba said:
It seems you missed (again) the folks that would be covered beginning this year.

It has been interesting though to see the conservative debate change during the year from, there is no-way/no-how this bill will pass, to, it doesn't go far enough, fast enough.
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He sees it. He just can't bring himself to admit it.
 
RightinNYC said:
So in response to my point that the number of uninsured people will remain at 50 million for the next four years, you're copy pasting a list that essentially reiterates the entirely non-responsive points made by ADK Forever?
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You would have to actually "read" posts to decide if they were "non-responsive". :doh
 
ADK_Forever said:
Ignorant? Does calling people names after your team loses always make you feel better?

I would think that most of the right leaning people in the country believe that Health Care reform is now here to stay. I'd even hazard a guess that RightinNYC will agree with this.
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You declared this to be a new "right", when your demonstrably wrong. I was being generous in assuming you didn't know what a right really was, hence the use of the word ignorant. Your other two options would be that you are unable to understand the difference, in which case you would be stupid, or that you are intentionally mischarcterizing it as a right which would make you a liar. Your choice.

This isn't meaningful health care reform, it's just giving the government another way to extract money and personal responsibility from the citizens. You may think that's a good thing, but I certainly don't. This is simply a bill, and bills can be changed or repealed.

If you're concerned about Rightin NYC's opinion, I suggest you quote him and not me.

ADK_Forever said:
Actually, this WIN will probably add to, or even multiply, their power. The majority of the country will want to thank the Dems for their persistence in getting this bill passed.

Could the Dems loose seats? Sure. It's the off year elections and that is normal. But, it doesn't always happen. Obama has fulfilled his #1 campaign promise and that will carry a lot of weight for his party in November.

Even if the Repubs win both houses, the country would never allow them to repeal this bill. Watch and learn.
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I think once people realize what this is going to cost them in increased premiums, fines and rationed care, you're going to see support for your party decrease. 2010 isn't going to be a good year for Dems, and Obama may end up being just a one term president.

Watch and learn.
 
Moon said:
You declared this to be a new "right", when your demonstrably wrong.
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I also said it "will be". That will soon be a reality. Like it or not.

This isn't meaningful health care reform, it's just giving the government another way to extract money and personal responsibility from the citizens. You may think that's a good thing, but I certainly don't. This is simply a bill, and bills can be changed or repealed.
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And it will be a LAW Tuesday night. :mrgreen:

I think once people realize what this is going to cost them in increased premiums, fines and rationed care, you're going to see support for your party decrease. 2010 isn't going to be a good year for Dems, and Obama may end up being just a one term president.
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That's your opinion. Mine is that when people see all the people who still have or were able to get health insurance when without this LAW they would be without, they will see which party cares about them.

Watch and learn.
 
Catawba said:
It seems you missed (again) the folks that would be covered beginning this year.
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How difficult is this to understand?

According to the CBO, the total number of uninsured would not change materially over the next 4 years. That means that the number of people who will gain coverage through the aforementioned programs will either be incredibly minor or will be offset by others who will be losing insurance.

It has been interesting though to see the conservative debate change during the year from, there is no-way/no-how this bill will pass, to, it doesn't go far enough, fast enough.
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Not sure where I said either, but hey, keep setting up those strawmen.

ADK_Forever said:
My "paste" was disputing your terribly inaccurate statement: "It also doesn't make health care a right, decrease the number of uninsured until 2014, or do much of anything to control overall health care costs.". I proved how upon the president signing this bill the number of uninsured would indeed DECREASE.

Instead of instructing me how I should respond to your statements perhaps you should try to READ and COMPREHEND before you go off with your lessons.
Click to expand...

I explained this to you once in another thread and twice already here, so I really don't know what else you expect me to do, short of walk you through it.

Step 1) Open the CBO report: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/cboscore.pdf

Step 2) Go to page 7

Step 3) Look at the line 2/3 of the way down that says "Post-policy uninsured population"

Step 4) Look in the column for 2010. See the number 50?

Step 5) Now look in the column for 2011. See the number 49?

Step 6) Now look in the column for 2012. See the number 50?

Step 7) Finally, look in the column for 2013. See the number 50?

I'm very curious to hear your explanation as to how going from 50m uninsured to 50m uninsured is a decrease.

If you would give any thought to other people on here having different, and more accurate, information than you have maybe you would be more open to being... wrong. Which you are. :2wave:
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You have different and more accurate information than the CBO report which the Democrats premised passage of the bill on? Please do share.
 
I'd sooner watch the season premier of "Breaking Bad" and then switch to MSNBC during the commercials...During their TV ads, I arise and try to do something more important.
Such as watching a poor paper wasp that has lost its home. I trust this creature more than most politicians.
 
ADK_Forever said:
I also said it "will be". That will soon be a reality. Like it or not.



And it will be a LAW Tuesday night. :mrgreen:
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Law =/= right

You wishing it to be a right doesn't make it so. I guess that takes ignorant out of your reasons for misrepresenting it as a right. Which do you select from your other two choices?
 
RightinNYC said:
How difficult is this to understand?
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That's our question to you. :roll:

I explained this to you once in another thread
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You mean you said something and I didn't agree with you? No ****, Sherlock. :doh

You are being disingenuous by intentionally ignoring the benefits that will kick in when this becomes law. You use #s from this report when it serves your purpose and dismiss them when they don't. Many people will be able to keep their insurance but, lose it if this was not law. Where would they be counted in that report?

Do you acknowledge any points from that list I gave you?

Spare me your biased lessons.
 
Moon said:
Law =/= right

You wishing it to be a right doesn't make it so. I guess that takes ignorant out of your reasons for misrepresenting it as a right. Which do you select from your other two choices?
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Eventually, it will cover everybody, in effect being a right that everybody will be able to expect: to have quality health care. When that happens I'll sit back and sip a cool one watching all your rightee's heads spin right off. :mrgreen:
 
ADK_Forever said:
Eventually, it will cover everybody, in effect being a right that everybody will be able to expect: to have quality health care. When that happens I'll sit back and sip a cool one watching all your rightee's heads spin right off. :mrgreen:
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Unless it's protected in writing in the Constitution, it's not a right. It really doesn't matter how much you wish to pretend otherwise.

Since you won't answer, I've decided which of your two options to go with. Look at the bright side; at least I don't think you're a liar.
 
RightinNYC said:
How difficult is this to understand?
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Apparently a lot, so let's take it one step at a time. For your assertion to be correct:

No small business will take advantage of the small business tax credit that starting in 2010 cover up to 35% of the company's contribution to employee's health coverage.

No people with pre-existing conditions who haven't had coverage for at least six months would want to obtain coverage through a "high-risk pool" with subsidized premiums.

No early retirees will be interested in the temporary reinsurance program that will help cut the cost of health coverage for retirees not old enough to be eligible for Medicare.

No dependents to age 26 will decide to stay on their parents insurance coverage rather than be without insurance.

And, no insured will continue to have coverage when their companies are no longer allowed to terminate their coverage when they get sick.


I find it totally unbelievable that will be the case.
 
ADK_Forever said:
You mean you said something and I didn't agree with you? No ****, Sherlock. :doh
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No, I presented you with "facts" and you pretend that they don't exist.

You are being disingenuous by intentionally ignoring the benefits that will kick in when this becomes law.
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No, I'm saying that they won't materially decrease the overall number of uninsured for four years. Which they won't. Period.

You use #s from this report when it serves your purpose and dismiss them when they don't.
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Link?

Many people will be able to keep their insurance but, lose it if this was not law. Where would they be counted in that report?
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:rofl They are counted (or would be if they existed).

Go back to the page I just showed you. It also lists the status quo, if you'd bothered to read it.

According to the CBO, even without this bill, the number of people with insurance would increase by six million over the next 4 years (including an 8m increase among private insurers). The number of uninsured would essentially be flat, going up 1m.

Do you acknowledge any points from that list I gave you?
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Do I acknowledge that they exist? Of course.
Do I acknowledge that they may well have a positive impact for many people? Of course.
Do I acknowledge that they will materially reduce the overall number of uninsured people? Of course not, because they won't.

Again, read the goddamn bill that Congress just passed. The decrease in the uninsured is coming from two places and two places alone: the expansion of Medicaid/CHIP and the Exchanges. Neither of those kicks in until 2014.

Spare me your biased lessons.
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I'm sorry that you're so partisan that you consider numbers taken directly from the CBO to be "biased lessons."

Hey, didn't you have some more recent and more accurate sources to share with me? What happened to those?
 
Moon said:
Unless it's protected in writing in the Constitution, it's not a right. It really doesn't matter how much you wish to pretend otherwise.
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It's really gonna make your and Corny's head spin when this takes effect, ain't it? Maybe we could sell tickets to the show. :2rofll:
 
Catawba said:
Apparently a lot, so let's take it one step at a time. For your assertion to be correct:

No small business will take advantage of the small business tax credit that starting in 2010 cover up to 35% of the company's contribution to employee's health coverage.

No people with pre-existing conditions who haven't had coverage for at least six months would want to obtain coverage through a "high-risk pool" with subsidized premiums.

No early retirees will be interested in the temporary reinsurance program that will help cut the cost of health coverage for retirees not old enough to be eligible for Medicare.

No dependents to age 26 will decide to stay on their parents insurance coverage rather than be without insurance.

And, no insured will continue to have coverage when their companies are no longer allowed to terminate their coverage when they get sick.


I find it totally unbelievable that will be the case.
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Take it up with the CBO, as it's their assertion, not mine.

According to the CBO, the total number of uninsured would not change materially over the next 4 years. That means that the number of people who will gain coverage through the aforementioned programs will either be incredibly minor or will be offset by others who will be losing insurance.
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ADK_Forever said:
It's really gonna make your and Corny's head spin when this takes effect, ain't it? Maybe we could sell tickets to the show. :2rofll:
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Moon and Right are probably some of the most level headed, results driven Republican/conservatives on this board.

To dismiss them as partisan hacks is ignoring their compromises with something works.
 
RightinNYC said:
Do I acknowledge that they will materially reduce the overall number of uninsured people? Of course not, because they won't.

Again, read the goddamn bill that Congress just passed. The decrease in the uninsured is coming from two places and two places alone: the expansion of Medicaid/CHIP and the Exchanges. Neither of those kicks in until 2014.
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Wrong. And you have the nerve to say others ignore facts? Holy ****! :doh

Where is that pic of a box of rocks? :mrgreen:
 
ADK_Forever said:
It's really gonna make your and Corny's head spin when this takes effect, ain't it? Maybe we could sell tickets to the show. :2rofll:
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Make my head spin? Not hardly. It will definitely make me poorer, and give me fewer options, and put the government more in control of something I rely upon from time to time (BTW, that's not a good thing), but it won't make my head spin.

Enjoy your gloating. I'll remember your posts the next time you leftees suffer a big political defeat.
 
ADK_Forever said:
It's really gonna make your and Corny's head spin when this takes effect, ain't it? Maybe we could sell tickets to the show. :2rofll:
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"Corny"?

Grow the **** up.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Moon and Right are probably some of the most level headed, results driven Republican/conservatives on this board.

To dismiss them as partisan hacks is ignoring their compromises with something works.
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I don't know about moon but, NYC has shown me his true colors. This thread and others have shown me the truth.

I didn't "dismiss him as a partisan hack". I said he's intentionally ignoring what is in the bill. Which he is.
 
ADK_Forever said:
I don't know about moon but, NYC has shown me his true colors. This thread and others have shown me the truth.

I didn't "dismiss him as a partisan hack". I said he's intentionally ignoring what is in the bill. Which he is.
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He has studied the bill and the numbers more than I have.
He is probably the best authority on it, compared to anyone else on this site.
 
Coronado said:
"Corny"?

Grow the **** up.
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Is it really that hard to accept that the other party is in the majority, that your party has no intention of serving their constituents, that the Dems have made history on these Repukes' watch by passing Health Care Reform that will make Pelosi's name go down as one of the greatest Speakers in history, Obama's as one of the greatest presidents of all time and will give all American's the right to quality health care?

Who really needs to grow the **** up?
 
ADK_Forever said:
Is it really that hard to accept that the other party is in the majority, that your party has no intention of serving their constituents, that the Dems have made history on these Repukes' watch by passing Health Care Reform that will make Pelosi's name go down as one of the greatest Speakers in history, Obama's as one of the greatest presidents of all time and will give all American's the right to quality health care?

Who really needs to grow the **** up?
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Which party is my party, champ?
 
RightinNYC said:
Take it up with the CBO, as it's their assertion, not mine.
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Since the House has already voted for the bill, its moot now anyway. What will matter now are the actual results of the bill.
 
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