View Poll Results: Who'll Be Watching the House Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

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  • Yes

    20 55.56%
  • No

    16 44.44%
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Thread: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

  1. #231
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    You declared this to be a new "right", when your demonstrably wrong.
    I also said it "will be". That will soon be a reality. Like it or not.

    This isn't meaningful health care reform, it's just giving the government another way to extract money and personal responsibility from the citizens. You may think that's a good thing, but I certainly don't. This is simply a bill, and bills can be changed or repealed.
    And it will be a LAW Tuesday night.

    I think once people realize what this is going to cost them in increased premiums, fines and rationed care, you're going to see support for your party decrease. 2010 isn't going to be a good year for Dems, and Obama may end up being just a one term president.
    That's your opinion. Mine is that when people see all the people who still have or were able to get health insurance when without this LAW they would be without, they will see which party cares about them.

    Watch and learn.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  2. #232
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It seems you missed (again) the folks that would be covered beginning this year.
    How difficult is this to understand?

    According to the CBO, the total number of uninsured would not change materially over the next 4 years. That means that the number of people who will gain coverage through the aforementioned programs will either be incredibly minor or will be offset by others who will be losing insurance.

    It has been interesting though to see the conservative debate change during the year from, there is no-way/no-how this bill will pass, to, it doesn't go far enough, fast enough.
    Not sure where I said either, but hey, keep setting up those strawmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    My "paste" was disputing your terribly inaccurate statement: "It also doesn't make health care a right, decrease the number of uninsured until 2014, or do much of anything to control overall health care costs.". I proved how upon the president signing this bill the number of uninsured would indeed DECREASE.

    Instead of instructing me how I should respond to your statements perhaps you should try to READ and COMPREHEND before you go off with your lessons.
    I explained this to you once in another thread and twice already here, so I really don't know what else you expect me to do, short of walk you through it.

    Step 1) Open the CBO report: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/cboscore.pdf

    Step 2) Go to page 7

    Step 3) Look at the line 2/3 of the way down that says "Post-policy uninsured population"

    Step 4) Look in the column for 2010. See the number 50?

    Step 5) Now look in the column for 2011. See the number 49?

    Step 6) Now look in the column for 2012. See the number 50?

    Step 7) Finally, look in the column for 2013. See the number 50?

    I'm very curious to hear your explanation as to how going from 50m uninsured to 50m uninsured is a decrease.

    If you would give any thought to other people on here having different, and more accurate, information than you have maybe you would be more open to being... wrong. Which you are.
    You have different and more accurate information than the CBO report which the Democrats premised passage of the bill on? Please do share.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #233
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    I'd sooner watch the season premier of "Breaking Bad" and then switch to MSNBC during the commercials...During their TV ads, I arise and try to do something more important.
    Such as watching a poor paper wasp that has lost its home. I trust this creature more than most politicians.

  4. #234
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I also said it "will be". That will soon be a reality. Like it or not.



    And it will be a LAW Tuesday night.
    Law =/= right

    You wishing it to be a right doesn't make it so. I guess that takes ignorant out of your reasons for misrepresenting it as a right. Which do you select from your other two choices?
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  5. #235
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How difficult is this to understand?
    That's our question to you.

    I explained this to you once in another thread
    You mean you said something and I didn't agree with you? No ****, Sherlock.

    You are being disingenuous by intentionally ignoring the benefits that will kick in when this becomes law. You use #s from this report when it serves your purpose and dismiss them when they don't. Many people will be able to keep their insurance but, lose it if this was not law. Where would they be counted in that report?

    Do you acknowledge any points from that list I gave you?

    Spare me your biased lessons.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  6. #236
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Law =/= right

    You wishing it to be a right doesn't make it so. I guess that takes ignorant out of your reasons for misrepresenting it as a right. Which do you select from your other two choices?
    Eventually, it will cover everybody, in effect being a right that everybody will be able to expect: to have quality health care. When that happens I'll sit back and sip a cool one watching all your rightee's heads spin right off.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  7. #237
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Eventually, it will cover everybody, in effect being a right that everybody will be able to expect: to have quality health care. When that happens I'll sit back and sip a cool one watching all your rightee's heads spin right off.
    Unless it's protected in writing in the Constitution, it's not a right. It really doesn't matter how much you wish to pretend otherwise.

    Since you won't answer, I've decided which of your two options to go with. Look at the bright side; at least I don't think you're a liar.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

  8. #238
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    How difficult is this to understand?
    Apparently a lot, so let's take it one step at a time. For your assertion to be correct:

    No small business will take advantage of the small business tax credit that starting in 2010 cover up to 35% of the company's contribution to employee's health coverage.

    No people with pre-existing conditions who haven't had coverage for at least six months would want to obtain coverage through a "high-risk pool" with subsidized premiums.

    No early retirees will be interested in the temporary reinsurance program that will help cut the cost of health coverage for retirees not old enough to be eligible for Medicare.

    No dependents to age 26 will decide to stay on their parents insurance coverage rather than be without insurance.

    And, no insured will continue to have coverage when their companies are no longer allowed to terminate their coverage when they get sick.


    I find it totally unbelievable that will be the case.
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  9. #239
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    You mean you said something and I didn't agree with you? No ****, Sherlock.
    No, I presented you with "facts" and you pretend that they don't exist.

    You are being disingenuous by intentionally ignoring the benefits that will kick in when this becomes law.
    No, I'm saying that they won't materially decrease the overall number of uninsured for four years. Which they won't. Period.

    You use #s from this report when it serves your purpose and dismiss them when they don't.
    Link?

    Many people will be able to keep their insurance but, lose it if this was not law. Where would they be counted in that report?
    They are counted (or would be if they existed).

    Go back to the page I just showed you. It also lists the status quo, if you'd bothered to read it.

    According to the CBO, even without this bill, the number of people with insurance would increase by six million over the next 4 years (including an 8m increase among private insurers). The number of uninsured would essentially be flat, going up 1m.

    Do you acknowledge any points from that list I gave you?
    Do I acknowledge that they exist? Of course.
    Do I acknowledge that they may well have a positive impact for many people? Of course.
    Do I acknowledge that they will materially reduce the overall number of uninsured people? Of course not, because they won't.

    Again, read the goddamn bill that Congress just passed. The decrease in the uninsured is coming from two places and two places alone: the expansion of Medicaid/CHIP and the Exchanges. Neither of those kicks in until 2014.

    Spare me your biased lessons.
    I'm sorry that you're so partisan that you consider numbers taken directly from the CBO to be "biased lessons."

    Hey, didn't you have some more recent and more accurate sources to share with me? What happened to those?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #240
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    Re: Who'll Be Watching the Health Care Reform Debate on Sunday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Unless it's protected in writing in the Constitution, it's not a right. It really doesn't matter how much you wish to pretend otherwise.
    It's really gonna make your and Corny's head spin when this takes effect, ain't it? Maybe we could sell tickets to the show.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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