View Poll Results: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation of Arms?

Voters
74. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    44 59.46%
  • No

    15 20.27%
  • Other

    15 20.27%
Page 18 of 26 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 259

Thread: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

  1. #171
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Jefferson's writings.
    Jefferson -- Quotations on Liberty
    Thankfully, we still have many liberties even 200 years after those writings, but freedom requires eternal vigilance.
    Yes! You took the bait!

    Jefferson was NOT advocating rebellion in this quote. Not even close.

    From the letter (he is speaking of Shay's Rebellion):

    I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them.
    Jefferson was saying that rebellions are not a sign of weakness for a healthy democracy, and that the threat of them keeps the government honest. He was certainly not saying they should actually succeed, nor did he think we needed a new constitution every few generations.

    Note that he wrote that the rebels were ignorant.
    Last edited by misterman; 03-15-10 at 09:27 PM.

  2. #172
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes! You took the bait!

    Jefferson was NOT advocating rebellion in this quote. Not even close.

    From the letter (he is speaking of Shay's Rebellion):



    Jefferson was saying that rebellions are not a sign of weakness for a healthy democracy, and that the threat of them keeps the government honest. He was certainly not saying they should actually succeed.
    Actually, he was saying that the people have a right to revolt when a government becomes tyrannical, though success is not guaranteed, btw, Shay's rebellion was all part of the big picture. But thanks for playing.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #173
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    John Adams: Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it
    Nothing about having an armed rebellion every generation there.

  4. #174
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Actually, he was saying that the people have a right to revolt when a government becomes tyrannical, though success is not guaranteed, btw, Shay's rebellion was all part of the big picture. But thanks for playing.
    Actually, no, he wasn't. Actually read the quote I posted, carefully. In fact, read the whole letter. He was absolutely NOT saying anything about the right of the people to revolt, not on a regular basis anyway. Obviously he supported the right to revolt when a government became tyrannical - he wrote the Declaration of Independence after all - but he certainly was NOT advocating that armed rebellion happen every time somebody has a grievance, the way this tree of liberty quote is misrepresented as saying by people like you and Jerry, who learned it in high school or saw it on a sign and never bothered to read the whole letter. Not at all. Read the letter.
    Last edited by misterman; 03-15-10 at 09:32 PM.

  5. #175
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Actually, no, he wasn't. Actually read the quote I posted, carefully.
    A threat, unless willing to be actually carried out, is not a threat - it's a lie, and therefore useless.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #176
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    A threat, unless willing to be actually carried out, is not a threat - it's a lie, and therefore useless.
    Nobody said it wouldn't be used. Just not frequently - only when needed. And the rebellion should be defeated. That's what Jefferson was saying.

  7. #177
    Sage
    Dezaad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Last Seen
    06-28-15 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    5,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Nothing about having an armed rebellion every generation there.
    What do YOU think it means "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion"?

    Hint: He is saying God should forbid us to go more than 20 years without having a rebellion.

  8. #178
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Nobody said it wouldn't be used. Just not frequently - only when needed. And the rebellion should be defeated. That's what Jefferson was saying.
    Profound yet moronic ... in other words blood of patriots and tyrants, turns to the blood of traitors and victors - since the defeated are criminals or will be and the tyrants the victorious. If as you say, that was his meaning, it was both short sighted and detached from reality.

    Not only do the spoils go to the victors, but history is written by the victors and somehow, I'm sure the victorious will not see the rebellious as "patriots".
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #179
    Sage
    Dezaad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Last Seen
    06-28-15 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    5,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Nobody said it wouldn't be used. Just not frequently - only when needed. And the rebellion should be defeated. That's what Jefferson was saying.
    What good is a rebellion, started and defeated, if it is known that there is no chance that it might have succeeded?

    He also is not saying that the rebellion's grievances should *all* be ignored.

    In short, you are being very one sided, very black and white about what he is saying in this writing. His position is nuanced. He is certainly not saying that rebellions should all fail. Do you think he thought the American Revolution should have been a rebellion that failed?

    He is acknowleging both the good and the bad that goes with armed insurrection. One key thing he points out is that armed rebellion is good for preserving liberty. Which is precisely what everyone pro 2nd amendment has been saying here.

  10. #180
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    06-23-10 @ 11:33 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,320

    Re: Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I agree Rev. The conservatives freaked out just as much when Clinton got elected.
    Not hardly. There was no run on ammo when Clinton got elected. Obama never even mentioned gun rights.

Page 18 of 26 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •