View Poll Results: Is it possible?

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    85 70.83%
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Thread: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

  1. #81
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yup. Basically, our 5 million military-and-police combo might be able to field 500,000 actual fighters (combat arms, SWAT, etc) at the most optimistic... and maybe another million or so half-arse combatants.

    If 10% of American gun owners rebelled, that would be 9 million people. Statistically at least a quarter of those would be veterans.

    Not looking so good for the forces of Big Government now, is it?

    Now... most of my buddies are current or former Military, or ex-cops. The question comes up sometimes: "what are you going to go if the government orders you to act against the Constitutional rights of American citizens?" Almost everyone I know says "Refuse the orders".
    I suspect most of them throughout the country would say the same thing. Whether they signed up out of patriotism or simply a desire to pound some pussy on all seven continents, one thing they all seem to understand is that they are there to protect the Constitution, not trample on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Granted, it would take a lot to stir up that kind of rebellion... if cable TV went off the air, and Beer were no longer available in the stores and bars, and the government could be made to bear the blame, that would do it.
    If the government cuts off the beer supply I'll be the first martyr (after I drink up whatever I have left, not that it would have anything to do with my martyrdom).

  2. #82
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually studies show that most would desert during a major disaster/epoxyclips, and go home to protect their families.

    1/3 would desert on Day 1.
    Well, we would be royally buggered then, wouldn't we? THis just reminds me that I need to stock up on ammo.

  3. #83
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Holy intellectual dishonesty...
    Well, that seems to be the message I'm getting from certain people. Never said it was you or anything, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to accuse me of being intellectually dishonest. Hazlnut, in his infinite wisdom, seems to think an asymmetric campaign would consist of a Specter gunship mowing down fat rednecks...

  4. #84
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually I've addressed that. If it ever actually got so bad that armed rebellion was our only recourse to preserve liberty, I'd be surprised if much less than half of the military didn't refuse the orders or actively side with the rebels.

    Admittedly, I base this on knowing lots of current and former servicemen, rather than some sourceable study sponsored by Harvard.
    First, try and remember Goshin that I am a vet before you go throwing out those random insults.

    Secondly, you have not addressed the logistic problem that the British had that would not be the case here.

    Third, if things got bad enough that half the military revolted, there would be no need for a revolt.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That's actually my squad in Karma Iraq. Many of the people in that picture are civilians now.
    From the looks of the wall behind you I'd say they were right about Karma being a bitch.

    Let me guess, you're the guy on the right with the ****-eatin' grin?

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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    But those were all the result of isolated incidents, not asymmetric warfare.
    We have never given in to terrorism before, I don't see that changing. There is no evidence it would. Sorry, but we are not a country of cowards.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yup. Basically, our 5 million military-and-police combo might be able to field 500,000 actual fighters (combat arms, SWAT, etc) at the most optimistic... and maybe another million or so half-arse combatants.

    If 10% of American gun owners rebelled, that would be 9 million people. Statistically at least a quarter of those would be veterans.

    Not looking so good for the forces of Big Government now, is it?

    Now... most of my buddies are current or former Military, or ex-cops. The question comes up sometimes: "what are you going to go if the government orders you to act against the Constitutional rights of American citizens?" Almost everyone I know says "Refuse the orders".

    Granted, it would take a lot to stir up that kind of rebellion... if cable TV went off the air, and Beer were no longer available in the stores and bars, and the government could be made to bear the blame, that would do it.
    More than likely, nothing like that would happen.
    That is why a successful insurgency is mostly psychology.

    If anything started it would most likely be a smaller situation which I'm guaranteed the government already has a 'quarantine' protocol, to make sure nothing spreads.

    Of course they would deny that it was some sort of rebellion and assert that it was a terrorist attack, gang violence, etc.
    They want to make sure that no military or law enforcement would turn on them.

    You have to also remember that police and military wouldn't necessarily do as they say they would.
    They would weigh that against losing pay, their own freedom and possibly making their families destitute by doing so.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well, that seems to be the message I'm getting from certain people. Never said it was you or anything, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to accuse me of being intellectually dishonest. Hazlnut, in his infinite wisdom, seems to think an asymmetric campaign would consist of a Specter gunship mowing down fat rednecks...
    No one has mentioned anything about banning guns in this thread that I saw, and you are the only one being insulting. Gunships in fact would be used, and I think you know that. He may not be entirely accurate, but he is not as far off as you have been.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #89
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually studies show that most would desert during a major disaster/epoxyclips, and go home to protect their families.

    1/3 would desert on Day 1.
    I think that was the case for Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I really wouldn't think too much of a man who deserted his family to go to his job in the face of a disaster.

  10. #90
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    Re: Is it possible to overthrow the US government

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    More than likely, nothing like that would happen.
    That is why a successful insurgency is mostly psychology.

    If anything started it would most likely be a smaller situation which I'm guaranteed the government already has a 'quarantine' protocol, to make sure nothing spreads.

    Of course they would deny that it was some sort of rebellion and assert that it was a terrorist attack, gang violence, etc.
    They want to make sure that no military or law enforcement would turn on them.

    You have to also remember that police and military wouldn't necessarily do as they say they would.
    They would weigh that against losing pay, their own freedom and possibly making their families destitute by doing so.
    I think the LA riots are a perfect example of how things can get out of hand so quickly, the government cannot react fast enough to really do anything. Same with the situation during Katrina.

    The Feds probably have all kinds of contingency plans. Unfortunately you can't just throw Federal troops into any state you want without approval.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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