View Poll Results: Voting is

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • A right

    25 71.43%
  • a privilege

    10 28.57%
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Thread: Is voting a right

  1. #81
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Here you guys go.

    “if the courts can consider any question settled, it is this one. … The Constitution, when it conferred citizenship, did not necessarily confer the right of suffrage”

    Minor v. Happersett: Information from Answers.com

    It says later 1964 that this interpretation was abandoned but as it is there is no absolute right to vote.
    Minor v. Happersett was an 1874 case brought by a woman who said that the Constitution required that she be allowed to vote. The court looked at the Constitution and said that "citizenship" was not automatically synonymous with the right to vote. Because it was limited to men, the court said it was okay.

    The Constitution was subsequently amended to explicitly allow women to vote, thus overruling Minor as to that issue. It's very doubtful that the decision has much force today.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  2. #82
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Minor v. Happersett was an 1874 case brought by a woman who said that the Constitution required that she be allowed to vote. The court looked at the Constitution and said that "citizenship" was not automatically synonymous with the right to vote. Because it was limited to men, the court said it was okay.

    The Constitution was subsequently amended to explicitly allow women to vote, thus overruling Minor as to that issue. It's very doubtful that the decision has much force today.
    I know it doesn't but they recognized that citizenship did not automatically infer a right to vote.

    Seeing that they were alive when the 14th amendment was drafted and instituted, I would certainly believe that they had a better understanding of it's intent than someone from 1920 or later.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    I find everyone who is in favour of restricting voting thinks anyone with a brain will vote the same way as them.
    For me it has nothing to do with that.
    It has to do with ethics in voting.

    We don't allow judges and juries to decide in cases where they have ethical issues that can conflict with their decisions, why should we allow voters?
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-13-10 at 01:32 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #84
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    Just a quick note to Jerry - as a single mom of two younger teenagers, I have never, ever been on any kind of public assistance. I've never drawn unemployment, I've worked multiple jobs in order NOT to draw government benefits.
    Let me make this simple: I don't care about you.

    Let's discuss demographics and trends with verifiable sources, as there is no value in anecdotal sob stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    You seem to think that single woman = lazy bum who does nothing but have babies and draw welfare.
    See I thought I said "vote to increase the size of government" not "lazy bum who does nothing but have babies and draw welfare". A woman can work hard while increasing the size of the government and benefit from doing so via Obama's mortgage bail-outs and tax rules applied to you whether you want them or not.

    Please read what I actually type and not what you think you hear. Asking questions to verify clarity is always helpful, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    So for you to sit there and state that my privilege to vote should be revoked based simply on the fact that 1. I'm a woman and 2. I am single, burns my ass.
    To reiterate: I don't care about how you feel, so telling me you're mad does not effect me.

    This is not about TheGirlNextDoor.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-13-10 at 01:35 AM.

  5. #85
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    I find everyone who is in favour of restricting voting thinks anyone with a brain will vote the same way as them.
    Like how Congress wants to restrict the voting rights of future Congresses by trying to make UHC unrepealable?

  6. #86
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I know it doesn't but they recognized that citizenship did not automatically infer a right to vote.

    Seeing that they were alive when the 14th amendment was drafted and instituted, I would certainly believe that they had a better understanding of it's intent than someone from 1920 or later.
    That's really not an accurate summary of what the court was saying though:

    If the right of suffrage is one of the necessary privileges of a citizen of the United States, then the constitution and laws of Missouri confining it to men are in violation of the Constitution of the United States, as amended, and consequently void. The direct question is, therefore, presented whether all citizens are necessarily voters.

    The Constitution does not define the privileges and immunities of citizens. For that definition we must look elsewhere. In this case we need not determine what they are, but only whether suffrage is necessarily one of them.

    It certainly is nowhere made so in express terms. The United States has no voters in the States of its own creation. The elective officers of the United States are all elected directly or indirectly by State voters. The members of the House of Representatives are to be chosen by the people of [88 U.S. 162, 171] the States, and the electors in each State must have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislature. 14 Senators are to be chosen by the legislatures of the States, and necessarily the members of the legislature required to make the choice are elected by the voters of the State. 15 Each State must appoint in such manner, as the legislature thereof may direct, the electors to elect the President and Vice-President. 16 The times, places, and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives are to be prescribed in each State by the legislature thereof; but Congress may at any time, by law, make or alter such regulations, except as to the place of choosing Senators. 17 It is not necessary to inquire whether this power of supervision thus given to Congress is sufficient to authorize any interference with the State laws prescribing the qualifications of voters, for no such interference has ever been attempted. The power of the State in this particular is certainly supreme until Congress acts.

    The amendment did not add to the privileges and immunities of a citizen. It simply furnished an additional guaranty for the protection of such as he already had. No new voters were necessarily made by it. Indirectly it may have had that effect, because it may have increased the number of citizens entitled to suffrage under the constitution and laws of the States, but it operates for this purpose, if at all, through the States and the State laws, and not directly upon the citizen.

    It is clear, therefore, we think, that the Constitution has not added the right of suffrage to the privileges and immunities of citizenship as they existed at the time it was adopted. This makes it proper to inquire whether suffrage was coextensive with the citizenship of the States at the time of its adoption. If it was, then it may with force be argued that suffrage was one of the rights which belonged to citizenship, and in the enjoyment of which every citizen must be protected. [88 U.S. 162, 172] But if it was not, the contrary may with propriety be assumed.
    The court then goes into an analysis of state Constitutions at the time of ratification, noting that while no state gave the right to vote to ALL citizens, they all gave it to some.

    The takeaway from this decision is not that there is no federal right to vote, so the states can eliminate the right of their citizens to vote. The takeaway is that there is no general federal right to vote that supersedes all state rules, but because states cannot discriminate on all sorts of grounds, and because the general understanding of the Constitution was that citizens got to vote, no state could constitutionally eliminate the right to vote entirely.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #87
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    For me it has nothing to do with that.
    It has to do with ethics in voting.

    We don't allow judges and juries to decide in cases where they have ethical issues that can conflict with their decisions, why should we allow voters?
    Nobody could vote if their ethical feelings where an issue.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

  8. #88
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    Nobody could vote if their ethical feelings where an issue.
    Sure they could, it's not that difficult.

    We should hold voters to high standards otherwise we will always get unethical politicians.
    Why should politicians act in an ethical manner when voters won't?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #89
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yep, my state even gives a right to vote in it's constitution but it could rewrite it and remove that part.
    States are required to have certain elements in their Constitutions, voting being one. To my knowledge the only office the state is required to allow it's citizens to vote on are the offices of Senator(s) and Representatives.

    I'm not sure if a state could restructure itself in a way which would not allow a gubernatorial vote or similar.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-13-10 at 01:40 AM.

  10. #90
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure they could, it's not that difficult.

    We should hold voters to high standards otherwise we will always get unethical politicians.
    Why should politicians act in an ethical manner when voters won't?
    for someone who claims to be a libertarian its strange you would have the idea of some state controlled threshold of voting ability.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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