View Poll Results: Voting is

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35. You may not vote on this poll
  • A right

    25 71.43%
  • a privilege

    10 28.57%
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Thread: Is voting a right

  1. #111
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Voting is a right, but it's a right restricted to US citizens. There's nothing wrong with excluding certain people from that definition; foreign nationals or felons, for instance. I think we should narrow the criteria of US citizenship so that people who depend on societal largess shouldn't be allowed to further extort society. They're being given benefits that other citizens are not entitled to, which means they should have to surrender their voting rights until they repay their debt to society. It's like they have all the same rights as everyone else plus one. That's not fair, and it isn't economically sensible to let people vote themselves into the Treasury. There's a reason why we're going bankrupt...

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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Voting is a right, but it's a right restricted to US citizens. There's nothing wrong with excluding certain people from that definition; foreign nationals or felons, for instance. I think we should narrow the criteria of US citizenship so that people who depend on societal largess shouldn't be allowed to further extort society. They're being given benefits that other citizens are not entitled to, which means they should have to surrender their voting rights until they repay their debt to society. It's like they have all the same rights as everyone else plus one. That's not fair, and it isn't economically sensible to let people vote themselves into the Treasury. There's a reason why we're going bankrupt...
    Your an elitist for wanting things to be fair and equitable.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #113
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Your an elitist for wanting things to be fair and equitable.
    Well, I am a bit of an elitist, but not the bad kind...

  4. #114
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Voting is a right, but it's a right restricted to US citizens. There's nothing wrong with excluding certain people from that definition; foreign nationals or felons, for instance. I think we should narrow the criteria of US citizenship so that people who depend on societal largess shouldn't be allowed to further extort society. They're being given benefits that other citizens are not entitled to, which means they should have to surrender their voting rights until they repay their debt to society. It's like they have all the same rights as everyone else plus one. That's not fair, and it isn't economically sensible to let people vote themselves into the Treasury. There's a reason why we're going bankrupt...
    Exactly.
    ..
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

  5. #115
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It is not elitism.
    To suggest it, shows your lack of understanding of the point of ethics.

    It is right and wrong, not "I want because I like it."

    If your support of an issue is not based in fact, what is your support worth?
    Why do we even debate issues if it's just because "I support it?"
    You have not shown that people are supporting issues not based on the facts. You are not showing that people are being bribed and basing their votes on that. You are not making your case. It is not up to you, or I, or anybody to tell people why they should or should not support a candidate or issue. Since we all benefit from the government in some ways, you could equally well argue that the government is bribing us all.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #116
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You have not shown that people are supporting issues not based on the facts. You are not showing that people are being bribed and basing their votes on that. You are not making your case. It is not up to you, or I, or anybody to tell people why they should or should not support a candidate or issue. Since we all benefit from the government in some ways, you could equally well argue that the government is bribing us all.
    Depends on what kind of benefit.

    Some are equally enjoyed, those are common pool resources.
    Roads, military etc.
    Others are not equally enjoyed, corporate welfare, social welfare etc.

    How about the current health care bill?
    There is a lot of factual evidence that this will not save money, it will do nothing of what it is supposed to do.
    Yet people still support it, why?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Depends on what kind of benefit.

    Some are equally enjoyed, those are common pool resources.
    Roads, military etc.
    Others are not equally enjoyed, corporate welfare, social welfare etc.

    How about the current health care bill?
    There is a lot of factual evidence that this will not save money, it will do nothing of what it is supposed to do.
    Yet people still support it, why?
    You are now making arbitrary divisions. Some government support is ok, some is not, based on your criteria. The government "bribing" some one by offering them money is ok sometimes(tax breaks for instance), sometimes it is bad, and should not be allowed.

    The truth is, politicians bribe every one of us, by offering to support or oppose issues that we care about. That is the American system. It works, we are the greatest country in the world as a direct result of this system. I would prefer to continue that system as opposed to what you support, which is government by the elite, chosen by the elite.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #118
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are now making arbitrary divisions. Some government support is ok, some is not, based on your criteria. The government "bribing" some one by offering them money is ok sometimes(tax breaks for instance), sometimes it is bad, and should not be allowed.
    That is not true at all.

    Even judges who are held to high ethical standards support the taxes that go to the court house.
    There is a stark difference between common pool resources and programs designed to benefit a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The truth is, politicians bribe every one of us, by offering to support or oppose issues that we care about. That is the American system. It works, we are the greatest country in the world as a direct result of this system. I would prefer to continue that system as opposed to what you support, which is government by the elite, chosen by the elite.
    Again you fail with your pretentious attempt to paint me as an elitist.

    What I propose has nothing to do with elitism.
    Ethics ≠ elitism

    We are the most prosperous economy because we had lots of raw materials.
    We are no better politically than any other country who has some form of democratic representation.

    What your talking about is romanticism.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is not true at all.

    Even judges who are held to high ethical standards support the taxes that go to the court house.
    There is a stark difference between common pool resources and programs designed to benefit a few.
    And this is an arbitrary distinction. Every one gets support from the government, you just approve of some, disapprove of others, and want to punish those who get support you do not like.

    Again you fail with your pretentious attempt to paint me as an elitist.

    What I propose has nothing to do with elitism.
    Ethics ≠ elitism

    We are the most prosperous economy because we had lots of raw materials.
    We are no better politically than any other country who has some form of democratic representation.

    What your talking about is romanticism.
    This has nothing to do with ethics, and everything to do with making an arbitrary determination on who should get to vote. You want only those elite people who can pass political muster with you to vote. That is not some "ethical" stand.

    There are other countries with larger supplies of raw materials that are not nearly the country we are.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #120
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And this is an arbitrary distinction. Every one gets support from the government, you just approve of some, disapprove of others, and want to punish those who get support you do not like.
    If that were true I wouldn't be arguing from the standpoint of common pool resources and specific benefit programs.
    That would make it arbitrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This has nothing to do with ethics, and everything to do with making an arbitrary determination on who should get to vote. You want only those elite people who can pass political muster with you to vote. That is not some "ethical" stand.
    Really, so are judges and juries political elite?

    Where does your definition of "political elite" start and end?


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are other countries with larger supplies of raw materials that are not nearly the country we are.
    So stage of development = greatness?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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