View Poll Results: Voting is

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35. You may not vote on this poll
  • A right

    25 71.43%
  • a privilege

    10 28.57%
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Thread: Is voting a right

  1. #91
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Let me make this simple: I don't care about you.

    Let's discuss demographics and trends with verifiable sources, as there is no value in anecdotal sob stories.
    And yet you take a graph showing that single women vote Democrat more often and then make an unsupported claim about how that obviously correlates to a love or hate for big and wasteful government.

    See I thought I said "vote to increase the size of government" not "lazy bum who does nothing but have babies and draw welfare". A woman can work hard while increasing the size of the government and benefit from doing so via Obama's mortgage bail-outs and tax rules applied to you whether you want them or not.
    And again, you suffer from the assumption that Rep = good, Dem = bad. Shockingly, others might see things differently.

    To reiterate: I don't care about how you feel, so telling me you're mad does not effect me.

    This is not about TheGirlNextDoor.
    So if I started posting about how people who had some traits that you share (without mentioning you in particular) tend to lower the level of discourse in this country and harm our society as a whole, and then argued that that meant that they should be disenfranchised, you would agree that you would have no grounds to take offense at that?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  2. #92
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's really not an accurate summary of what the court was saying though:

    The court then goes into an analysis of state Constitutions at the time of ratification, noting that while no state gave the right to vote to ALL citizens, they all gave it to some.

    The takeaway from this decision is not that there is no federal right to vote, so the states can eliminate the right of their citizens to vote. The takeaway is that there is no general federal right to vote that supersedes all state rules, but because states cannot discriminate on all sorts of grounds, and because the general understanding of the Constitution was that citizens got to vote, no state could constitutionally eliminate the right to vote entirely.
    I was waiting for you to slay me with your lawyerness.

    It's definitely a murky issue then because instead of expressly saying "everyone 18+ has the right to vote," they had just added amendments dealing with sex, race etc.
    It's not definitive.

    I'm just pointing out that there was never an original intent to have everyone voting.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-13-10 at 01:45 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    for someone who claims to be a libertarian its strange you would have the idea of some state controlled threshold of voting ability.
    Practicality has brought me to this choice.

    The act of most people being allowed to vote has brought large and intrusive government.
    It seems that democracy doesn't support what I believe in any way.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Practicality has brought me to this choice.

    The act of most people being allowed to vote has brought large and intrusive government.
    It seems that democracy doesn't support what I believe in any way.
    But only the government could make a restriction of voting like this happen.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

  5. #95
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So if I started posting about how people who had some traits that you share (without mentioning you in particular) tend to lower the level of discourse in this country and harm our society as a whole, and then argued that that meant that they should be disenfranchised, you would agree that you would have no grounds to take offense at that?
    RightinNYC, such threads are all around me, and no I don't take offense.

    When someone starts a 'should men have a say in abortion' thread, no, I don't get all offended.

    When I participate in such a thread I stick with facts and policy. As I'm not perfect I do slip up now and then and a mod is quick with the points, which only proves that taking threads personally is erroneous.

    If someone feels strongly about something I say they can take a page out of Danaria's book and start a Basement thread about it. That is the proper venue to vent personal feelings, not up here.

  6. #96
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    But only the government could make a restriction of voting like this happen.
    There are some restrictions government should be doing.

    Restricting unlawful killing, stealing etc.
    Government also has a duty to be ethical and obey the law themselves.
    They have shown that when they don't like the rules they either change or ignore them.

    There are so many government programs I would be willing to support if our government acted in an ethical manner.
    I would completely change my tune on UHC and similar things but they have shown a lack of will and want.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #97
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    for someone who claims to be a libertarian its strange you would have the idea of some state controlled threshold of voting ability.
    Libertarianism ≠ anarchy.

  8. #98
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I was waiting for you to slay me with your lawyerness.

    It's definitely a murky issue then because instead of expressly saying "everyone 18+ has the right to vote," they had just added amendments dealing with sex, race etc.
    It's not definitive.

    I'm just pointing out that there was never an original intent to have everyone voting.
    Your larger point is certainly right - when the framers drafted the Constitution, it's unlikely that they thought it was creating some sort of new federal right to vote, as the right to vote was already protected (to some degree) in each state. However, because they had that in mind, it in effect constitutes an acknowledgment of an implicit federal right - if VA had tried to eliminate the right to vote for everyone in 1790, the framers would have been appalled. That means that there was at least some basic level of voting that the Constitution requires. Over time, that was repeatedly reaffirmed by the addition of amendments that expanded the class of people that the implicit right had to cover, until we now have what is in effect a federal right to vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    RightinNYC, such threads are all around me, and no I don't take offense.

    When someone starts a 'should men have a say in abortion' thread, no, I don't get all offended.

    When I participate in such a thread I stick with facts and policy. As I'm not perfect I do slip up now and then and a mod is quick with the points, which only proves that taking threads personally is erroneous.
    And again, nobody has said that BFT is appropriate. All that has been said is that it's fairly natural for posts that include ridiculous and absurd claims to spur posts that call those ridiculous and absurd claims out. Sort of like this:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...post1058609818

    Simply saying "Oh, but I'm referring to policy!" doesn't change the fact that you're making a ridiculous argument, much like I'm sure you felt about the OP there.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #99
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And again, nobody has said that BFT is appropriate. All that has been said is that it's fairly natural for posts that include ridiculous and absurd claims to spur posts that call those ridiculous and absurd claims out. Sort of like this:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/aborti...post1058609818

    Simply saying "Oh, but I'm referring to policy!" doesn't change the fact that you're making a ridiculous argument, much like I'm sure you felt about the OP there.
    Did you notice how I didn't flame anyone in that post?

    If only people here were addressing my argument instead of flaming me directly, then you wold have a point.

    If you would like to discuss the topic I would be more than happy to participate. If all you're going to do is continue to defend members flaming others upstairs then please save your keystrokes as I won't bother reading your posts.

  10. #100
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    Re: Is voting a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I was waiting for you to slay me with your lawyerness.

    It's definitely a murky issue then because instead of expressly saying "everyone 18+ has the right to vote," they had just added amendments dealing with sex, race etc.
    It's not definitive.

    I'm just pointing out that there was never an original intent to have everyone voting.
    There was original intent to have everyone voting for representatives and ballot issues, absolutely.

    I think you could make an argument against voting on specific offices, though.

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