View Poll Results: See OP: Who is responsible for the death of the human shields?

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Thread: Human shields

  1. #81
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sometimes, there is no other choice.
    That is pretty hard to imagine. Can you think of a situation where there is no other choice?

  2. #82
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Circumstantially, yes you can be forced to perform a lethal action. People with military, law enforcement, and many with regular firearms/tactical training do have reflexive actions that are second nature, including pulling the trigger under duress.
    It does not remove the action. Until such point as you are physically automated by outside forces, you are responsible for your actions
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #83
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sometimes, there is no other choice.
    Sometimes you feel there is no other choice. There is always a choice, you can pull the trigger or you cannot pull the trigger. You make a choice.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #84
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No one else but yourself can have your brain send signals to your muscles to have them perform an act. You're not a robot, everything ultimately always comes down to a choice you make.
    I believe we're speaking on an actual responsibility for the killing, as a driver takes when he causes an accident, not when the situation is forced upon you.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  5. #85
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    There's always another choice... Dying is one of them. Be killed rather than kill.
    That choice goes against the basic instincts of the living being, and no sane house of law would accept such a thing as the required action by the soldier.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  6. #86
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That choice goes against the basic instincts of the living being, and no sane house of law would accept such a thing as the required action by the soldier.
    But that speaks to justification of the act, not responsibility of the action itself.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #87
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But that speaks to justification of the act, not responsibility of the action itself.
    That's exactly what I'm saying.
    By 'responsibility' the OP means to the take of blame for the result.
    The death of the innocent, in case he dies, is of course not the fault of the one who fires back at the target, but of the target, that keeps his life at a deliberate risk.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  8. #88
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    Re: Human shields

    I wouldn't say the shooter isn't at fault. Through the actions of the shooter, an innocent is killed. Rather, I would say that in some cases the taking of innocent life can be justified in some legal manner. It doesn't take away the action, because the action would have been a measurable quantity. What it would say is that it was "reasonable" or justified action to kill the other person. The shooter still carries causation as they made the decision to shoot.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #89
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That choice goes against the basic instincts of the living being, and no sane house of law would accept such a thing as the required action by the soldier.
    I'm not talking about required action or law. I'm saying that if you wish to avoid killing human shields, you do not shoot.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  10. #90
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The point is to learn, the point is to not dismiss the humanity of those we fight. By acknowledging this, we can potentially decrease the frequency and longevity of wars we have to fight.
    To learn what? That our enemy's are dirt bags who use inhumane tactics? I mean realistically we learned that already.

    Those we fight have already given up any humanity they had the moment they started hiding in mosques and using human shields. It is not shortening anything as I showed in the article, it is making them bolder.

    War itself is inhumane.

    We already know this.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-11-10 at 05:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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