View Poll Results: See OP: Who is responsible for the death of the human shields?

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Thread: Human shields

  1. #41
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    When would it be illegal? When would it not be?
    Is there a situation where you -would- choose to attack a legitimate target defended by human shields?
    If you are the initial aggressor, you could probably legally be liable for the death. If defender and protecting your own life, you're likely to not be legally liable. Though these are broad generalities here and everything would depend on the specific conditions which go down.

    And there would probably be times which I would choose to attack such a target. There are circumstances in which it is legally justified. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that I would have killed (if we assume the human shield is killed) an innocent person. Even if I am not held legally liable for it, I still would have ended an innocent's life. Taking human life is never a good thing.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  2. #42
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is true. We also cannot let people get away with this. If a military sends a clear message that this is not acceptable and the innocents die. Those enemy combatants will be far less likely to try it again. Instead we appease and they get even more bold.
    I think if you've got enough high ground, let our best sharpshooters have a little cross-pattern fun and pick 'em off at will. The human race has little use for scum that is that cowardly.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #43
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    "Human shield is a military and political term describing the deliberate placement of civilians in or around combat targets to deter an enemy from attacking those targets. It may also refer to the use of civilians to literally shield combatants during attacks, by forcing the civilians to march in front of the soldiers.

    This is done in the hope that the other party will be reluctant to attack them. Furthermore, if the other party attacks these targets anyway, the resulting civilian casualties have propaganda value.

    Using this technique increases the civilian casualty rate and is illegal by any nation that is party to the Fourth Geneva Convention.
    Human shield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    The act of using human shields is illegal. A country is under no obligation or blame if the opposing forces use them illegally. If a hostage is killed during a rescue attempt by police, the police are not held liable.

    I will take the word of the Geneva conventions over yours, but thanks anyway.
    Of course it's illegal. But if you shoot someone, you shoot someone. No amount of excuses or international law will take away from that fact. Sorry you disagree with reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The Israelis would disagree...
    Israel is hardly the moral authority on respecting innocent life. They are more than willing to take out as many civilians as possible in order to try to maybe get one or two terrorists. Appeal to them would go more against your case than for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Prolong or excuse? LMAO! OK, you can continue to ignore the reality of the situations if you like. Most people disagree with you for a reason on this. Including the Geneva conventions.
    It is you whom seeks divorce from reality. The dehumanization of people leads to the ability to continue or initiate war. It's common practice of warmongers to try as well. We do everything we can to dismiss the humanity of the victims so that people can feel better about ending human life. But the cold hard facts of the matter is that if you shoot someone, you are responsible for taking their life at least in some part as you are the one who pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Reality is a bitch.
    It certainly is, let me know when you decide to join it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think if you've got enough high ground, let our best sharpshooters have a little cross-pattern fun and pick 'em off at will. The human race has little use for scum that is that cowardly.
    Ummmmbut...

    What if the target is a launch site placed inside a town where the people are held captive and the only way to take it out is to bomb it?

  5. #45
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ummmmbut...

    What if the target is a launch site placed inside a town where the people are held captive and the only way to take it out is to bomb it?
    Worst case scenario, don't release the info to the international press, do everything possible to get a covert team in there to minimalize casualties, worst case do whatever is necessary to negate capabilities of the enemy to launch. I will take a small town of civilians over much larger numbers in a potential missle strike any day of the week.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #46
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ummmmbut...

    What if the target is a launch site placed inside a town where the people are held captive and the only way to take it out is to bomb it?
    I think really perhaps we're getting off what this thread asked about. It asked about responsibility. I think what people seem to be arguing in some part is a question on whether or not the act can be justified. Those are two very different questions.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #47
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I will take a small town of civilians over much larger numbers in a potential missle strike any day of the week.
    This is exactly the right answer.

  8. #48
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is exactly the right answer.
    You still bear some responsibility for having killed those innocent people though. That is an inescapable truth.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #49
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Of course it's illegal. But if you shoot someone, you shoot someone. No amount of excuses or international law will take away from that fact. Sorry you disagree with reality.
    Who is making excuses? To be a soldier you have to be willing to do the job. If you are not, stay the hell out of the way.

    Yes ignoring international law, that pretty much sums up your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Israel is hardly the moral authority on respecting innocent life. They are more than willing to take out as many civilians as possible in order to try to maybe get one or two terrorists. Appeal to them would go more against your case than for it.
    Not according to the information I posted. So far you have posted nothing in the way of facts to back up your position.

    I notice you cut out the article saying the exact opposite. I wonder why?

    "In November 2006, Palestinian women volunteered as human shields to allow the escape of Hamas gunmen from Israeli forces in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip. The armed Palestinians had barricaded themselves in a mosque, which was surrounded by Israeli troops and tanks. According to a Hamas spokeman, a crowd of women gathered outside the mosque in response to an appeal on the local radio station for women to protect the Hamas fighters. The Palestinian gunmen escaped by dressing in women's clothes and hiding in the large group.

    Also in the same month, the Israeli Air Force warned Mohammed Weil Baroud, a Palestinian leader said to be responsible for firing Qassam rockets at Israel, to evacuate his home in Beit Lahia in the Gaza Strip in advance of an airstrike. Instead, hundreds of Palestinians, including many women and children, gathered outside Baroud's house. Israel suspended the airstrike out of fear that the human shields would be killed or injured. In response to Israel's reaction, another Palestinian leader said: "We have won. From now on we will form human chains around every house that is threatened with demolition." The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs says Hamas now regularly uses human shields to protect the homes of Hamas officials.
    "

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It is you whom seeks divorce from reality. The dehumanization of people leads to the ability to continue or initiate war. It's common practice of warmongers to try as well. We do everything we can to dismiss the humanity of the victims so that people can feel better about ending human life. But the cold hard facts of the matter is that if you shoot someone, you are responsible for taking their life at least in some part as you are the one who pulled the trigger.
    If the enemy is using the person as a shield, no they are not. According to international law and the majority of people.

    Now if you would like to post some FACTS, I am more than ready to hear them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It certainly is, let me know when you decide to join it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #50
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You still bear some responsibility for having killed those innocent people though. That is an inescapable truth.
    Prove it? Legally you are not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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