View Poll Results: See OP: Who is responsible for the death of the human shields?

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Thread: Human shields

  1. #141
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Don't feel bad Blackdog, I am not "gettin' it" either.
    I am hoping someone will seriously fill us in, lol.

    I mean I think I have now accurately explained my position.

    Just in case it gets lost back there....

    "I still want to know, what does this mean? Responsibility with no responsibility legally is what?

    I mean if it was my responsibility to clean up the dogs mess, but I never did and someone else did it for me and I was punished, I am obviously responsible. Now lets remove the punishment, this also removes any real responsibility as if I do it or not is now irrelevant.

    Can someone explain how I would still be responsible?
    "
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-12-10 at 08:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #142
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I still think you would be responsible as well. You took actions that directly resulted in the death of the human shield (firing back). Would you be guilty in a legal sense? No. Would your actions have been justified? Yes. But you still bear an equal share of responsibility in the human shield's death.

    Yeah, look... I don't see your point.

    Okay, IF I had the opportunity to just walk away and failed to take it, that is one thing. But if we're talking about a situation where my life is being endangered by the hostage-taker, no... what are my practical options? Get shot and let this scumbag do what he likes to whoever else is in the area... no.

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  3. #143
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Okay, they're "responsible", but that does not mean they're "culpable".
    No, they may not be culpable. That's different than responsible. They are, however, very much responsible. The morality of the action is debatable depending on the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm afraid redneck ex-cops like me don't understand such fine distinctions.

    Well, ok in a sense I do. Legally, if you claim to have killed someone in self-defense then you are considered to have admitted to the crime of homicide, while claiming the justification of self-defense. If the justification is accepted, then you walk and are free from all criminal penalty.

    Frankly that never made sense to me. If it is justified and you go free, then you were right and not guilty of any crime. You were not "responsible" in a criminal sense.
    Responsible in a criminal sense is different too. If you kill someone in self defense, you are still responsible for their death. Were you in the 'right' to do it? Of course. But you still caused their death, you ARE responsible for their death. Culpable? Nope. Criminally responsible? Nope. Morally wrong? Nope. But *responsible* for their death, absolutely.

  4. #144
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am hoping someone will seriously fill us in, lol.

    I mean I think I have now accurately explained my position.

    Just in case it gets lost back there....

    "I still want to know, what does this mean? Responsibility with no responsibility legally is what?

    I mean if it was my responsibility to clean up the dogs mess, but I never did and someone else did it for me and I was punished, I am obviously responsible. Now lets remove the punishment, this also removes any real responsibility as if I do it or not is now irrelevant.

    Can someone explain how I would still be responsible?
    "
    I'm speaking of responsibility in more of a cause and effect sense. Your actions directly lead to the death of the human shield. Had you not taken that action, he would still be alive. That makes you responsible for his death in my mind.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  5. #145
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yeah, look... I don't see your point.

    Okay, IF I had the opportunity to just walk away and failed to take it, that is one thing. But if we're talking about a situation where my life is being endangered by the hostage-taker, no... what are my practical options? Get shot and let this scumbag do what he likes to whoever else is in the area... no.
    There are always other choices. Yes, those choices are not attractive ones, but they were there. The fact of the matter is that you made the choice to take the action that ended the human shield's life. That makes you responsible for his death, because had you not taken that action he wouldn't have died.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #146
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    There are always other choices. Yes, those choices are not attractive ones, but they were there. The fact of the matter is that you made the choice to take the action that ended the human shield's life. That makes you responsible for his death, because had you not taken that action he wouldn't have died.
    This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The poll result disagree with you.
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  7. #147
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The poll result disagree with you.
    I didn't say he was solely responsible. By my metric, both sides share equal responsibility for his death.

    So what if people disagree. There's no such thing as truth by majority.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  8. #148
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm speaking of responsibility in more of a cause and effect sense. Your actions directly lead to the death of the human shield. Had you not taken that action, he would still be alive. That makes you responsible for his death in my mind.
    Responsible in action only, OK.

    I still think the person who put the meat shield in that position is responsible, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #149
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Responsible in action only, OK.

    I still think the person who put the meat shield in that position is responsible, period.
    Fair enough, you're welcome to your opinion.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #150
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    Re: Human shields

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Fair enough, you're welcome to your opinion.
    As we all are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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