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Miracle Marijuana

Should Medical Marijuana Be Legal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 78.4%

  • No

    Votes: 5 9.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 11.8%
  • Total voters
    51
CaptainCourtesy said:
Except YOU would be wrong about that. It is wholly possible to die from alcohol intoxication. Throwing up alleviates alcohol intoxication. I hope that logic clears it up for you.
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Someone doesn't apparently know the difference between anecdote and science.

It is scientifically been shown that vomitting is in part the bodies way to expel excess alcohol for some people

It is also scientifically shown that Marijuana helps to decrease the likelihood of vomiting, which is in part the basis of its use as a medicinal product for some people.

Thus its perfectly logical, not from an anecdotal position but from a scientific one, to state that it could be dangerous to drink excessively and then mix it with alcohol as those two affects can coincide with each other potentially leading to bad situations.

This is far different than going "dude, I got **** faced last night and then smoked up and like thirty minutes later I was sober. Pot makes you sober man".

That is anecdotal. What CC said wasn't.
 
I think it should be legalized. We allow alcohol to be sold,alcohol is far more dangerous. Seems highly hypocritical to allow booze and still eye weed as an evil cousin to the real drugs that ruin societies. Despite a post to the contrary marjijauna is addictive,no question. However having been a user for years and years Ive quit cold turkey now and then for a variety of reasons. You do not end up on the floor in a fetal position,sweating and shaking uncontrollably from the DTs like an alcoholic.You get irritable and edgy for w few days,you wish you had more weed and then after a week or so....you dont care so much about it.In this country folks should be able to do what they like when they are not harming society outwardly or endangering their life immediately.If folks choose to damage themselves thru years of usage,its their body. The effects of these things are common knowledge.

I do get a kick out of some of the excuses people bring to the table in the defense of weed....such as reducing violence....helping folks to get off alcohol....even some of the so called medical reasoning is tenuous.Weed is not the reason folks in Mexico are beheading people or why gangs in LA or Chicago engage in drivebys.You might take away a limited amount of domestic gang revenue and violence,that will be replaced with something else if weed isnt in demand.I fail to see the benefit of weed as a substitute to alcohol in terms of weening someone of an addiction to booze and smoking weed while drinking most certainly doesnt sober you up..it exacerbates the effects of alcohol actually.Now curing a hangover is a different story. Another thing I find a bit laughable is this concept that if it legalized there wont be more users....cmon now. Common sense dictates a different story.But as Ive maintained its their life,they should have the choice.

Legalizing does have a variety of hurdles to overcome,logitically speaking. Who will sell it? Who will grow it? IMO the govt needs to stay out of the production/distribution business. The issue with regulation is if you overregulate,youll leave a black market in tact. If you dont regulate at all you wont be able to tax it and establish a tax revenue stream,which I think is fair.A middle ground must be found where Americans can profit but where folks cant just begin to grow acres of plants in the backyards. Weed is pretty much a weed. I rememeber a few years ago I was just throwing seeds out the window of my bedroom and before I knew what happened I had nice little crop sprouting up. There are many variables that make this issue more complex than some folks let on.

In summary,I do advocate legalization of marijuana and decriminalization of the usage many others but sometimes I feel that prolegal advocates dont think of the cons,only the pros and often misrepresent even the pro sometimes.Until a clearly defined,comprehensive plan is thought out to deal with the many pitfalls that exist in making weed available publically all we can do is debate about it but lets all be honest while debating.
 
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I disagree with the notion that legalization won't create more users. (hell, here's one that it'd likely create at least once to see what it was like)

However I do agree with the general notion that I don't think we'd see a large increase in the amount of people getting intoxicated in some form or another. I think what you'd see is that some of your normal alcohol drinkers would probably start taking up pot as well if it was allowable. And I think many of the people that don't do it because its not legal currently but would do it if it became legal are people who already drink.

I think the number of people who don't drink, and don't smoke illegally, but would smoke if it was made legal is extremely low when taken into account the entire population and thus I think the amount of increased individuals getting intoxicated would not go up by much, not the amount of people doing marijuana.
 
Zyphlin said:
I disagree with the notion that legalization won't create more users. (hell, here's one that it'd likely create at least once to see what it was like)
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Note that it typically takes smoking 3 to 5 times before you get high if you have never smoked before. I think it has something to do with the creation and deployment of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_receptor"]cannabinoid receptors[/ame].

However I do agree with the general notion that I don't think we'd see a large increase in the amount of people getting intoxicated in some form or another. I think what you'd see is that some of your normal alcohol drinkers would probably start taking up pot as well if it was allowable. And I think many of the people that don't do it because its not legal currently but would do it if it became legal are people who already drink.

I think the number of people who don't drink, and don't smoke illegally, but would smoke if it was made legal is extremely low when taken into account the entire population and thus I think the amount of increased individuals getting intoxicated would not go up by much, not the amount of people doing marijuana.
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Binary_digit has good evidence on this issue. Here is one:

http://www.mapinc.org/lib/limited.pdf
We found no evidence to support claims that criminalization reduces use or that decriminalization increases use.
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I'll have to give it a closer read after work :) Thanks.

At a quick perusal though, it seems to be focusing primarily on long term or regular users of the substance. But I'd have to look at it closer.

It'd definitely be something I'd be interested in reading and looking at the method of performing hte research as it doesn't jive with common sense to me, unless it is looking at anyone that's done it even a single time and concluding the numbers wouldn't change much...and even then it just doesn't seem to stand up to normal reason. I by no means am saying what I would consider common sense or my anecdotal evidence proves it wrong, but simply it spurs me to read it closer to find out why I may be wrong.

I know of a number of people whom I went to school for that all wished to get into law enforcement that either have never smoked, or had once long ago but do not continue the practice, due to realizing they would have to get a security clearance for any job they wished to get into (this was me included). I have a good guess the majority of us would at least do it occasionally, if for nothing else to see how we responded to it, if it was legalized. I find it hard to imagine that such a situation is unique. While alcohol laws weren't enough to deter us from drinking under aged the penalties for that were far less harsh than marijuana.

That said, its hardly a scientific means of determining it. Should be an interesting study to read.
 
Zyphlin said:
I know of a number of people whom I went to school for that all wished to get into law enforcement that either have never smoked, or had once long ago but do not continue the practice, due to realizing they would have to get a security clearance for any job they wished to get into (this was me included).
Click to expand...

I am currently screwed on the job availability front, living like you in the NOVA area, since I cannot get an interim clearance. I last smoked in March, 2005 but Secret Clearances look back 7 years for drugs. I will not lie on the application. This means I admit to last smoking regularly in 2005 and that blocks me automatically from getting an interim clearance. I think I would get a clearance given a full investigation but employers can't afford to wait that long. In two years I will be past the limit and able to get an interim.
 
reefedjib said:
I am currently screwed on the job availability front, living like you in the NOVA area, since I cannot get an interim clearance. I last smoked in March, 2005 but Secret Clearances look back 7 years for drugs. I will not lie on the application. This means I admit to last smoking regularly in 2005 and that blocks me automatically from getting an interim clearance. I think I would get a clearance given a full investigation but employers can't afford to wait that long. In two years I will be past the limit and able to get an interim.
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The world work forces loses a lot of brilliant people because of pot being illegal.

What would music be like today without pot? Just wonderin?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Except YOU would be wrong about that. It is wholly possible to die from alcohol intoxication. Throwing up alleviates alcohol intoxication. I hope that logic clears it up for you.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm sorry, you must be right. Could you please post the link to the study that explains how the body cannot vomit while under the influence of marijuana. :waiting:

The American Medical Association (AMA), the largest association of physicians and medical students in the US, stated in its June 2001 online report titled "Medical Marijuana":

"When directly compared, oral THC was preferred to smoked marijuana, but only 20% to 25% of patients receiving either drug achieved complete control of emesis (vomiting) Oral and smoked THC were ineffective in older patients (median age = 41 years) who were inexperienced in the use of smoked marijuana....

In summary, substantial progress has been made in controlling chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting.... Although there have been few formal studies of smoked marijuana, its reported efficacy for complete prevention of acute emesis is less than what normally would be considered sufficient to warrant a formal trial given the efficacy of available agents."

June 2001 - American Medical Association (AMA)
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Zyphlin said:
Someone doesn't apparently know the difference between anecdote and science.

It is scientifically been shown that vomitting is in part the bodies way to expel excess alcohol for some people

It is also scientifically shown that Marijuana helps to decrease the likelihood of vomiting, which is in part the basis of its use as a medicinal product for some people.

Thus its perfectly logical, not from an anecdotal position but from a scientific one, to state that it could be dangerous to drink excessively and then mix it with alcohol as those two affects can coincide with each other potentially leading to bad situations.

This is far different than going "dude, I got **** faced last night and then smoked up and like thirty minutes later I was sober. Pot makes you sober man".

That is anecdotal. What CC said wasn't.
Click to expand...

Someone doesn't apparently know the difference between anecdote and science.
Or more specifically, hypothesis and scientific theory/fact
 
NoJingoLingo said:
Oh I'm sorry, you must be right. Could you please post the link to the study that explains how the body cannot vomit while under the influence of marijuana. :waiting:
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Meaning that patented prescriptions, that cost a thousand times more money than pot are easily available to the rich.
 
Commoncents said:
I think it should be legalized. We allow alcohol to be sold,alcohol is far more dangerous. Seems highly hypocritical to allow booze and still eye weed as an evil cousin to the real drugs that ruin societies. Despite a post to the contrary marjijauna is addictive,no question. However having been a user for years and years Ive quit cold turkey now and then for a variety of reasons. You do not end up on the floor in a fetal position,sweating and shaking uncontrollably from the DTs like an alcoholic.You get irritable and edgy for w few days,you wish you had more weed and then after a week or so....you dont care so much about it.In this country folks should be able to do what they like when they are not harming society outwardly or endangering their life immediately.If folks choose to damage themselves thru years of usage,its their body. The effects of these things are common knowledge.

I do get a kick out of some of the excuses people bring to the table in the defense of weed....such as reducing violence....helping folks to get off alcohol....even some of the so called medical reasoning is tenuous.Weed is not the reason folks in Mexico are beheading people or why gangs in LA or Chicago engage in drivebys.You might take away a limited amount of domestic gang revenue and violence,that will be replaced with something else if weed isnt in demand.I fail to see the benefit of weed as a substitute to alcohol in terms of weening someone of an addiction to booze and smoking weed while drinking most certainly doesnt sober you up..it exacerbates the effects of alcohol actually.Now curing a hangover is a different story. Another thing I find a bit laughable is this concept that if it legalized there wont be more users....cmon now. Common sense dictates a different story.But as Ive maintained its their life,they should have the choice.

Legalizing does have a variety of hurdles to overcome,logitically speaking. Who will sell it? Who will grow it? IMO the govt needs to stay out of the production/distribution business. The issue with regulation is if you overregulate,youll leave a black market in tact. If you dont regulate at all you wont be able to tax it and establish a tax revenue stream,which I think is fair.A middle ground must be found where Americans can profit but where folks cant just begin to grow acres of plants in the backyards. Weed is pretty much a weed. I rememeber a few years ago I was just throwing seeds out the window of my bedroom and before I knew what happened I had nice little crop sprouting up. There are many variables that make this issue more complex than some folks let on.

In summary,I do advocate legalization of marijuana and decriminalization of the usage many others but sometimes I feel that prolegal advocates dont think of the cons,only the pros and often misrepresent even the pro sometimes.Until a clearly defined,comprehensive plan is thought out to deal with the many pitfalls that exist in making weed available publically all we can do is debate about it but lets all be honest while debating.
Click to expand...

In summary, people believe all kinds of things that have no basis in fact. Opponents of legalization rely on propaganda, weak or non-existent personal experience, anecdotal "evidence" and flat out lies.

What little, actual, scientific knowledge we have seems to disprove the propaganda.

Thousands of years of use tends to disprove the propaganda.

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NoJingoLingo said:
In summary, people believe all kinds of things that have no basis in fact. Opponents of legalization rely on propaganda, weak or non-existent personal experience, anecdotal "evidence" and flat out lies.

What little, actual, scientific knowledge we have seems to disprove the propaganda.

Thousands of years of use tends to disprove the propaganda.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

NICE! There is my Addiction Index I was looking for.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
In summary, people believe all kinds of things that have no basis in fact. Opponents of legalization rely on propaganda, weak or non-existent personal experience, anecdotal "evidence" and flat out lies.

What little, actual, scientific knowledge we have seems to disprove the propaganda.

Thousands of years of use tends to disprove the propaganda.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

Hey! Stop bad mouthing my coffee! :baby2:stop::smoking::coffeepap
 
NoJingoLingo said:
Oh I'm sorry, you must be right. Could you please post the link to the study that explains how the body cannot vomit while under the influence of marijuana. :waiting:
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When you can quote where I said that the body CANNOT vomit while under the influence of marijuana, I'll be happy to. But since I didn't and your comment is nothing more than your ridiculous strawman, there is no need.

Further, the information I posted is scientific fact. The body release toxins formed by alcohol poisoning through vomiting; marijuana suppresses the vomiting center of the brain. You do the math. I understand that accepting that seriously affects your position, and that must be sad for you, but it doesn't change the fact that it is accurate.
 
Marijuana affects the mind. It CAN affect the mind of people to a level that will cause poor reaction skills in crisis situations when driving. Just because it can do this doesn't mean that it will happen every time, to every person, everytime they go in a car. However, that doesn't mean its not good advise to tell people "Don't drive when you're high, its dangerous" because its unquestionably more dangerous driving while high then driving while completely sober without any distractions.

Likewise, while not everyone will have issues puking if its needed because of excess alcohol because they're high, it still has the potential for that and as such increases ones risk more so than may be necessary. Thus, similarly, suggesting to people not to get hammered and completely stoned is a reasonable suggestion to make because the potential for harm is increased more so than if you just drank or just got stoned.

No where has anyone said "If you smoke pot and drive you WILL get in a wreck" nor has anyone said "If you smoke pot and drink alcohol you will NOT be able to throw up". They've stated these kind of things have the potential to happen based on the evidence found concerning the situations and as such people suggest not to put yourself into higher risk situations for no particularly good reason.
 
My 2 cents worth, I thoroughly enjoyed smoking hash for some time once I discovered which type I enjoyed and which I did not.

I am not aware of it being physically addictive but yes, psychologically addictive.

I would enjoy some now to help with pain but no longer have the right sources and while the UK gov is thinking of making medicinal marijuana available I think it is intending on taking out the high which I think is not fair!!

There is of course a strong argument for legalising all drugs so that care can be taken to make sure they are not impure and as important to get rid of all the crime associated with them.

We went half way with marijuana. We made it a class C drug which meant people caught with it might get a caution but no more.

However we then got a lot of psychiatrists complaining that people were suffering from increased paranoia and that with it being more or less legal people felt it was safe to take.

I think we are moving back to making it Class B again.

It is a difficult one to decide on.

Like it or not people do believe if something is legal it is safe. We lost 2 teenagers taking a supposed 'legal high' last weekend and marijuana does lead to paranoia and how can I put it, laziness in some people.

But for us oldies, for medical reasons - bring it on ;)
 
Zyphlin said:
Marijuana affects the mind. It CAN affect the mind of people to a level that will cause poor reaction skills in crisis situations when driving. Just because it can do this doesn't mean that it will happen every time, to every person, everytime they go in a car. However, that doesn't mean its not good advise to tell people "Don't drive when you're high, its dangerous" because its unquestionably more dangerous driving while high then driving while completely sober without any distractions.

Likewise, while not everyone will have issues puking if its needed because of excess alcohol because they're high, it still has the potential for that and as such increases ones risk more so than may be necessary. Thus, similarly, suggesting to people not to get hammered and completely stoned is a reasonable suggestion to make because the potential for harm is increased more so than if you just drank or just got stoned.

No where has anyone said "If you smoke pot and drive you WILL get in a wreck" nor has anyone said "If you smoke pot and drink alcohol you will NOT be able to throw up". They've stated these kind of things have the potential to happen based on the evidence found concerning the situations and as such people suggest not to put yourself into higher risk situations for no particularly good reason.
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The key here is to not get caught up in absolutes, and to remember that based on what marijuana does, biologically and chemically, it is completely appropriate to warn of it's dangers, but not to demonize it.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The key here is to not get caught up in absolutes, and to remember that based on what marijuana does, biologically and chemically, it is completely appropriate to warn of it's dangers, but not to demonize it.
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Tell that to the federal government for the last 70 years. :(
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The key here is to not get caught up in absolutes, and to remember that based on what marijuana does, biologically and chemically, it is completely appropriate to warn of it's dangers, but not to demonize it.
Click to expand...

You are my hero, cap'n.:mrgreen:
 
NoJingoLingo said:
In summary, people believe all kinds of things that have no basis in fact. Opponents of legalization rely on propaganda, weak or non-existent personal experience, anecdotal "evidence" and flat out lies.

What little, actual, scientific knowledge we have seems to disprove the propaganda.

Thousands of years of use tends to disprove the propaganda.

attachment.php
Click to expand...

Cool!!! thanks;)
 
It was my understanding that medical cannabis was already legal (at the state level). Currently, you can obtain a medical recommendation and purchase from a dispensary all out of one facility. This type of operation is not all that common; but without a shadow of a doubt, there have been great efforts made and cannabis is (off the record) legal.

You just have to maintain proper procedures.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
When you can quote where I said that the body CANNOT vomit while under the influence of marijuana, I'll be happy to. But since I didn't and your comment is nothing more than your ridiculous strawman, there is no need.
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Would you accept "cannot" as a substitute for "will not"?
CaptainCourtesy said:
However, if you overindulge in alcohol, and smoke enough pot, your body will NOT be able to purge itself of the alcohol poisoning. This can be quite dangerous... I know I have had to send several clients to the hospital after an episode like this.
Click to expand...

Further, the information I posted is scientific fact.
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Well then, please do as I requested and provide the source of this scientific fact.

The body release toxins formed by alcohol poisoning through vomiting; marijuana suppresses the vomiting center of the brain.
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Marijuana users and Dr.'s can attest to the fact that it relieves NAUSEA, it does not prevent vomiting. This scientific fact has been proven and a synthetic form of THC has been created, tested and approved by the FDA to simulate the NAUSEA relief effects. :2wave:

You do the math. I understand that accepting that seriously affects your position, and that must be sad for you, but it doesn't change the fact that it is accurate.
Click to expand...
No math needed, your "logic" fails because your proof is anecdotal while mine is viewable scientific fact.

Dronabinol is the International Nonproprietary Name (INN) for a pure isomer of THC, (-)-trans-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol, that is, the main isomer in cannabis.[11] It is sold as Marinol (a registered trademark of Solvay Pharmaceuticals). Dronabinol is also marketed, sold, and distributed by PAR Pharmaceutical Companies under the terms of a license and distribution agreement with SVC pharma LP, an affiliate of Rhodes Technologies.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol]Tetrahydrocannabinol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
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