View Poll Results: Should Medical Marijuana Be Legal?

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Thread: Miracle Marijuana

  1. #161
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFungus420 View Post
    Not very, it appears:

    "THC's effects on road-tracking after doses up to 300 g/kg never exceeded alcohol's at bacs of 0.08 g%; and, were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs' (Robbe, 1994; Robbe and O'Hanlon, 1995; O'Hanlon et al., 1995). Yet, THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence."

    Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance

    I tried to find a link to this on the NHTSA's website, but they seem to have deleted it (which is one reason that I don't consider the US government to be a reliable source about drugs, they have a history of ignoring and trying to cover up anything that doesn't support "Drugs are bad, M'Kay").
    More from your study:

    "The results of the studies corroborate those of previous driving simulator and closed-course tests by indicating that THC in inhaled doses up to 300 g/kg has significant, yet not dramatic, dose-related impairing effects on driving performance (cf. Smiley, 1986)."

    Significant, in research methods, means statistically significant. There was enough of a deviation and impairment for the researchers to mention this.

    Also, from your quote: "Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments."

    This is evidence that the drivers ARE impaired. They KNOW that because of the drug, their driving ability has been diminished, an therefore attempt to exercise more caution.

    Also: "Although THC's adverse effects on driving performance appeared relatively small in the tests employed in this program, one can still easily imagine situations where the influence of marijuana smoking might have a dangerous effect; i.e., emergency situations which put high demands on the driver's information processing capacity, prolonged monotonous driving, and after THC has been taken with other drugs, especially alcohol."

    Slippery road, quick stops, night driving in bad weather. All of these situations, any kind of impairment, including that from THC can be significantly more dangerous.
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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    I don't buy that cannabis is physically addictive. Habit forming, sure.

  3. #163
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    I found the study that I remember citing. As I said, because of copyright limitations, I cannot link to the actual study. Here is my post from oh so long ago:

    A physical addiction is termed by having physical withdrawal symptoms when the substance in question is stopped. Since not everyone who uses marijuana will become physically addicted, not everyone will suffer withdrawal symptoms when stopping. However, research shows that some do suffer from withdrawal symptoms when they stop smoking, which is the identification of an addiction, showing that marijuana can be physically addictive.

    Some substantiated information on this:

    Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction for some people; that is, they abuse the drug compulsively even though it interferes with family, school, work, and recreational activities. Drug craving and withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop abusing the drug. People trying to quit report irritability, sleeplessness, and anxiety(31). They also display increased aggression on psychological tests, peaking approximately one week after the last use of the drug(32).

    Sources:
    31 Kouri EM, Pope HG, Lukas SE. Changes in aggressive behavior during withdrawal from long-term marijuana use. Psychopharmacology 143(3):302-308, 1999.

    32 Haney M, Ward AS, Comer SD, et al. Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in humans. Psychopharmacology 141(4):395-404, 1999.

    InfoFacts - Marijuana
    Along with craving, withdrawal symptoms can make it hard for long-term marijuana smokers to stop using the drug.49

    Source:


    49Budney, A.J.; Moore, B.A.; Vandrey, R.G.; and Hughes, J.R. The time course and significance of cannabis withdrawal. J Abnorm Psychol 112(3):393-402, 2003.



    Abstract for above source:


    Withdrawal symptoms following cessation of heavy cannabis (marijuana) use have been reported, yet their time course and clinical importance have not been established. A 50-day outpatient study assessed 18 marijuana users during a 5-day smoking-as-usual phase followed by a 45-day abstinence phase. Parallel assessment of 12 ex-users was obtained. A withdrawal pattern was observed for aggression, anger, anxiety, decreased appetite, decreased body weight, irritability, restlessness, shakiness, sleep problems, and stomach pain. Onset typically occurred between Days 1-3, peak effects between Days 2-6, and most effects lasted 4-14 days. The magnitude and time course of these effects appeared comparable to tobacco and other withdrawal syndromes. These effects likely contribute to the development of dependence and difficulty stopping use. Criteria for cannabis withdrawal are proposed.

    NIDA - Research Report Series - Marijuana Abuse
    Lastly, several researchers review literature and numerous studies in order to examine the physical addictive issue around marijuana. This report takes a look at many studies and reaches conclusions based on the comparisons of all of the results. After this research, the authors conclude that stopping the use of marijuana can create withdrawal symptoms, giving validity to the the concept of both cannabis withdrawal and cannabis dependence.

    Here is there concluding statement:

    We propose that the cannabis withdrawal syndrome is reliable,
    valid, and clinically important and should be included
    in the next revision of DSM. Appendix 1 lists symptoms
    we propose as criteria for a cannabis withdrawal
    disorder (41). The common symptoms reflect those observed
    consistently across studies of cannabis withdrawal
    and reported by a substantial proportion of participants
    studied (Table 1). The less common or equivocal symptoms
    have been observed across some studies, are experienced
    by a minority of study participants, or are of lesser magnitude.
    Other symptoms appear in more than one study but
    not in the majority of studies. We believe endorsement of at
    least four of these symptoms and evidence that these symptoms
    produced clinically significant distress or dysfunction
    should lead to a diagnosis of cannabis withdrawal. Furthermore,
    adoption of a diagnosis of cannabis withdrawal
    would eliminate one of the discrepancies in substance use
    disorders between DSM and ICD nosologies.

    Link: http://www.uams.edu/psych/car/pdf%20...JPreview04.pdf
    Some become physically dependent on marijuana.
    And here:

    In 1988 the discovery of the cannabinoid receptor in the brain opened research into dependance, abuse, and withdrawal of the drug, similar to what has been done in the research of opiates. After the triggering of these receptors, withdrawal symptoms can occur similar to that of an opiate. Because there is a primary cause (THC) rather than a secondary (biochemical changes caused by mood), the physical response is consistent with definitions for physical withdrawal.
    And here:

    The research is in a subscription-based journal that, because of copyright restrictions, I cannot link to. The article is Cannabinoids: reward, dependence, and underlying neurochemical
    mechanisms—a review of recent preclinical data;
    Journal of Psychopharmacology. If you'd like, I will check the restrictions and, if I can, PM you the entire article.
    There's more spread throughout a few threads and post due to the inability of direct quoting or linking to the study.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #164
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I don't buy that cannabis is physically addictive. Habit forming, sure.
    Define the difference.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #165
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Oh, long term use, sure. Long term use of any chemical alters brain chemistry towards reliance, I would imagine. Coffee is that way. Not all people get the withdrawl symptoms but I've met people who have caffeine withdrawl if they deviate from their level of daily intake.

    If there is an addictive nature to cannabis I would define it as low risk, while placing tobacco, alcohol, and even caffeine above it.

    The difference between habit forming and addictive... I'll describe it in my own words. Addiction is more physiological. The physical body becomes dependent upon the substance for sustaining stable function.

    Habit forming... is just you being used to having it around. Some people come home from work and have a beer or two, others take a couple of pot hits. They may even look forward to it at the end of the day. But if for some reason it's not there one night, they don't start going crazy about it.

    Actually, a good way to look at it would be the colloquial use of 'addiction' (i.e. she's so addicted to using facebook) vs. the medical definition of 'addiction' (i.e. the patient has a prolonged addiction and dependence on heroin.)

  6. #166
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Still searching my files.

    Here's another one with many links:

    Sorry, but you are both wrong. New research has identified cannabis withdrawal syndrome, symptoms similar to those when one withdraws from tobacco, and other drugs. Most of the research into this is fairly new...post 1998. This is well documented in many studies, both observed behaviorally, and recorded, clinically, with brain receptor reactions, as well as limbic system reactions, all similar to the reactions to withdrawal from other drugs.

    There being no cannabis withdrawal, hence no physical addiction is a position that has, recently, been proven false. Further, the canaboid receptor antagonist, having been identified as the facilitator for the withdrawal, has also been associated with connecting to the opioid receptors, having some impact on modulating those, too. This is the first biological evidence that there may exist a "gateway' effect of marijuana. This research is very new, and needs more study before it can be identified as fact.

    In heavy users, marijuana, when use is stopped, causes withdrawal, indicating physical dependence.

    Here are some links to some of the research. The third link discusses the canaboid receptors in biological terms:

    Cannabis withdrawal in adolescent treatment seekers
    Review of the validity and significance of cannabi...[Am J Psychiatry. 2004] - PubMed Result
    Marijuana withdrawal syndrome in the animal model. [J Clin Pharmacol. 2002] - PubMed Result
    Activation of corticotropin-releasing factor in th...[Science. 1997] - PubMed Result
    Marijuana abstinence effects in marijuana smokers ...[Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001] - PubMed Result
    The time course and significance of cannabis withd...[J Abnorm Psychol. 2003] - PubMed Result
    Abstinence symptoms following smoked marijuana in ...[Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1999] - PubMed Result
    Abstinence symptoms during withdrawal from chronic...[Exp Clin Psychopharmacol. 2000] - PubMed Result
    Psychiatric Times - Does Marijuana Withdrawal Syndrome Exist?
    Log In Problems
    Log In Problems


    Though there are some full articles, many of these are only abstracts. I have access to many of the full articles (not all), but because they are "pay access" I cannot post them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #167
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I don't buy that cannabis is physically addictive. Habit forming, sure.
    Everything has a physical addiction, the symptoms are what differ. Pot does manifest itself in physical addiction, sure it isn't DT's or the very dramatic symptoms of heroine or nicotine withdrawal, but things like paranoia, recurrent nightmares, and sleep distrubances have been shown as present among the symptoms present in marijuana addicts. Personally I don't make a judgement, but there is a case to be made objectively.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #168
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    From what I see of all the research, there is no doubt that marijuana is physically addictive in some people. Is it as addictive as many other substances? No, but that does not change that it IS, at times. The issue with this is that this does not alter whether or not marijuana should be legalized. It should. If we were to make illegal any substance that were physically addictive, alcohol, cigarettes, and coffee is gone... which makes no sense. However, for pro-legalizers, denying the physically addictive quality of marijuana weakens your argument... because you are misrepresenting reality. It's exactly like anti-legalizers saying that if you smoke marijuana, you WILL become lazy or WILL go insane. This too, is a gross misrepresentation and weakens the anti-legalizers argument.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #169
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    From what I see of all the research, there is no doubt that marijuana is physically addictive in some people. Is it as addictive as many other substances? No, but that does not change that it IS, at times. The issue with this is that this does not alter whether or not marijuana should be legalized. It should. If we were to make illegal any substance that were physically addictive, alcohol, cigarettes, and coffee is gone... which makes no sense. However, for pro-legalizers, denying the physically addictive quality of marijuana weakens your argument... because you are misrepresenting reality. It's exactly like anti-legalizers saying that if you smoke marijuana, you WILL become lazy or WILL go insane. This too, is a gross misrepresentation and weakens the anti-legalizers argument.
    I will say though that the "gateway drug" thing is the most overused and pathetic cliche out there. Pot does not necesarilly lead to hard drug usage, but .......it does lead to southern rock consumption I find.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #170
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    Re: Miracle Marijuana

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I will say though that the "gateway drug" thing is the most overused and pathetic cliche out there. Pot does not necesarilly lead to hard drug usage, but .......it does lead to southern rock consumption I find.
    I have backed off on the "gateway drug" position since I posted those links. Though in my experience, I have seen this to be absolutely true, the research that I have read is either inconclusive, correlation but not causation, or completely refutes it. Though my anecdotal evidence supports this, that doesn't mean too much when research opposes my position.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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