View Poll Results: Are Rights Natural?

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  • Yes.

    27 40.30%
  • No.

    32 47.76%
  • Other.

    6 8.96%
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    16 23.88%
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Thread: Are Rights Natural?

  1. #61
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes we do. For while I acknowledge that rights can be born from different sources (natural law, positive law, social contract), you seem to persist in your statement that natural rights do not exist.
    OK...we partially agree.

  2. #62
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    and dont have access to 'our' rights? Agreed.
    They may not share our social rights, but all humans have the same base natural rights which are founded in life, liberty, and property.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #63
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Maybe its about carrot and not A? And speaks to a larger points about what I read elsewhere in these forums on a virtual daily basis.
    So you wade into a conversation and throw your carrot into the concrete hoping to make stew? Brilliant.

  4. #64
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They may not share our social rights, but all humans have the same base natural rights which are founded in life, liberty, and property.
    Sigh...

    no maam...they dont. try living in some of those places. Or at least visiting.

  5. #65
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
    Nothing silly about the way it sounds. If my speech rights are violated, I fully expect government to step in and enforce said rights. Failure to do so takes rights out of the natural category and places them into the societal construct category.
    They were never in the natural category to begin with. You've never had the right to free speech fully, there are always limitations. You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, you can't slander people, you can't sell military secrets, etc. Those aren't limitations to your free speech rights, you never had those rights to begin with, society never granted them to you.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #66
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sigh...

    no maam...they dont. try living in some of those places. Or at least visiting.
    Sigh

    Yes maam they do. Try abdicating natural rights, you can't. All humans share the same base natural rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #67
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I wouldn't. Because natural rights revolve around that which cannot be taken. For instance, you have natural ownership of your body. There are rights which come from social contract and rights which come from positive law as well. And these rights are different than natural rights, is how I would put it.
    But, of course, the "natural ownership of your body" can be taken, so it must not be a right. In fact, there isn't a single "natural right" in existence that cannot be taken by some evil regime, or that hasn't been taken by an evil regime of the past.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #68
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But, of course, the "natural ownership of your body" can be taken, so it must not be a right. In fact, there isn't a single "natural right" in existence that cannot be taken by some evil regime, or that hasn't been taken by an evil regime of the past.
    You can't take ownership of my body. Try to control my thoughts and muscles.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #69
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can't take ownership of my body. Try to control my thoughts and muscles.
    While thoughts might be more difficult, certainly someone can theoretically hook you up to a machine that would take control of your muscles, or someone can do pretty much anything they want to with your body against your will, presuming no one stops them from doing so. I suppose it's even possible that there could be a drug that would brainwash you and make you think and act in a manner you otherwise wouldn't. So certainly, it is possible, thus doing away with the "cannot be taken away" claim.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #70
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can't take ownership of my body. Try to control my thoughts and muscles.
    Possibly in a religious sense, someone may actually be able to. Also, slavery.


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