View Poll Results: Are Rights Natural?

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  • Yes.

    27 40.30%
  • No.

    32 47.76%
  • Other.

    6 8.96%
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    16 23.88%
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Thread: Are Rights Natural?

  1. #311
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Human nature is a fact. Rights, however, are ideas or constructs based upon that fact. You're free to disagree with the idea / construct of rights, and this would make you a nihilist, but I don't think you're a nihilist, in fact, I don't think anyone is really a nihilist, even if they claim to be...

    Rights are based upon the most intrinsic and universal element of human nature (self-determination, self-ownership, individual sovereignty) which means it is unchanging, which means there is nothing we could learn about biology that would alter these human universals.
    Interesting, because I see the end result of human nature being quite different. However, your take on it is quite interesting I will admit. The first thing that comes to mind is that I do have some issues with the idea of self determination because in my view our environment forces many more decisions on us our than our desires do (unless you are wealthy). It would be nice if we were more free to exercise it, but often we aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Show me where I have said this.
    I will concede the point. Thanks for answering.

  2. #312
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The first thing that comes to mind is that I do have some issues with the idea of self determination because in my view our environment forces many more decisions on us our than our desires do (unless you are wealthy). It would be nice if we were more free to exercise it, but often we aren't.
    Just because something outside my control forces me into a circumstance I would otherwise reject does not mean my conception of self-determination has been altered.

    For instance, if I jumped out of the way of a moving vehicle even though I desired to remain stationary, wouldn't I still being exercising self-determination? I mean, I could have stood there and just got hit, instead, I chose to move.

  3. #313
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The only rights you have are the rights society or the government gives you.
    Rights are given by nature, to be restricted or protected by society and government.

    If there were no society or government what rights would we have? Would they cease to exist? At that point I would see them as limitless. From the concept of civility we attempt to create a society that maximizes the rights of the whole, while limiting your infringement on the rights of others. This in no way means that those rights are granted by a civilized society, just protected.

  4. #314
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, if the government told you to stab yourself in the eye, you'd do it?
    Ridicules fallacy. Has no bearing on this at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    How can something that does not physically exist be taken away or given out?
    By force and law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by this.
    I have seen in other country's rights stripped from people for no reason. Rights are given and taken away by the government or society you live under, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #315
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    By force and law.
    Those only add negative consequences to the exercising of one's rights, but they cannot remove the ability to exercise that right, only the freedom to do so without recourse.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  6. #316
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Ridicules fallacy. Has no bearing on this at all.



    By force and law.



    I have seen in other country's rights stripped from people for no reason. Rights are given and taken away by the government or society you live under, period.
    I can see you have no interest in a constructive dialog. Good day.

  7. #317
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Those only add negative consequences to the exercising of one's rights, but they cannot remove the ability to exercise that right, only the freedom to do so without recourse.
    OK but where did the right come from? Who gave us rights in the first place? I don't understand if they cannot be given or taken away, why do they even matter?
    Last edited by Black Dog; 03-13-10 at 12:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #318
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I can see you have no interest in a constructive dialog. Good day.
    Because I mentioned the reality of the situation in other country's? Or because I rejected the fallacy, what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #319
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jray573 View Post
    Rights are given by nature, to be restricted or protected by society and government.

    If there were no society or government what rights would we have? Would they cease to exist? At that point I would see them as limitless. From the concept of civility we attempt to create a society that maximizes the rights of the whole, while limiting your infringement on the rights of others. This in no way means that those rights are granted by a civilized society, just protected.
    Rights are granted by civilized society based on instinct, desires, and morality... the first biological, the other two, relative to the person or group. If there was no civilized society, there would be no rights. Just instincts, desires and morality governing an individual's or a group's actions. The first would be based on biology. The latter two would be relative to the individual or group.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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  10. #320
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Rights are granted by civilized society based on instinct, desires, and morality... the first biological, the other two, relative to the person or group. If there was no civilized society, there would be no rights. Just instincts, desires and morality governing an individual's or a group's actions. The first would be based on biology. The latter two would be relative to the individual or group.
    It would seem to me that the difference in opinion here is due solely to our definition of the word "rights." How would you define it?

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