View Poll Results: Are Rights Natural?

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  • Yes.

    27 40.30%
  • No.

    32 47.76%
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    6 8.96%
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    16 23.88%
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Thread: Are Rights Natural?

  1. #301
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm not angry, I was just pointing out the obstructionist behavior of one of the more anti-libertarian people on the board...maybe the second most so.

    And if we act like a married couple, than Cephus is the poster child for domestic abuse!

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    Are Rights Natural?Alright, alright, enough of the personal attacks.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #302
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Apparently it's not self-evident, otherwise everyone would have the same view.
    All humans have a conception of self-ownership and self-determination. That's why they eat when they're hungry and sleep when they're tired and drink when they're thirsty or pull their hand away from a fire when it pains them. This is true of all humans. This is human nature, and what the philosophy of "natural rights" is based upon. You're free to disagree with the philosophy and wallow in pure nihilism and absolute moral relativism if you like, but I prefer a more consistent and logical philosophy...

  3. #303
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    The only rights you have are the rights society or the government gives you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  4. #304
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The only rights you have are the rights society or the government gives you.
    Rights cannot be "given" by anyone or anything, as they do not physically exist. They are philosophical constructs that are based upon human nature. You're free to disagree with the philosophy but the only people who could logically maintain such a denial are tyrants and nihilists.

  5. #305
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Rights cannot be "given" by anyone or anything, as they do not physically exist. They are philosophical constructs that are based upon human nature. You're free to disagree with the philosophy but the only people who could logically maintain such a denial are tyrants and nihilists.
    Unfortunately reality for me says different. I have a right to own a gun. If no amendment existed, I have no right.

    I understand what you are saying, but reality and having been overseas says different. For me anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #306
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Rights cannot be "given" by anyone or anything, as they do not physically exist. They are philosophical constructs that are based upon human nature. You're free to disagree with the philosophy but the only people who could logically maintain such a denial are tyrants and nihilists.
    Basing rights on human nature is a good idea since human nature will support it and it will tend to work well with the human psyche, but it is nothing more than a good idea, not a fact. Perhaps this stances makes me a nihilist.

    However, my question is, should this conception of human nature based rights change as we learn more about biology, the brain, and other scientific topics?

    And please do not reply with "Ugh, you just need to be a scholar on this subject and read these 53 books!" as you tend to do.

  7. #307
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Unfortunately reality for me says different. I have a right to own a gun. If no amendment existed, I have no right.
    Why not? Wouldn't you still recognize your self-ownership in the absence of the Second Amendment? Wouldn't you exercise self-determination in the absence of a Bill of Rights? Wouldn't anyone?

    I understand what you are saying, but reality and having been overseas says different. For me anyway.
    Just because a right can be violated does not mean it ceases to be a valid concept.

  8. #308
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Why not? Wouldn't you still recognize your self-ownership in the absence of the Second Amendment? Wouldn't you exercise self-determination in the absence of a Bill of Rights? Wouldn't anyone?
    If the government said no? Of course not.

    Rights can be taken away and given as I have seen with my own eyes in other country's. It is always done by government in every case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Just because a right can be violated does not mean it ceases to be a valid concept.
    Rights as a concept is one thing. Rights in reality is another.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #309
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Basing rights on human nature is a good idea since human nature will support it and it will tend to work well with the human psyche, but it is nothing more than a good idea, not a fact. Perhaps this stances makes me a nihilist.
    Human nature is a fact. Rights, however, are ideas or constructs based upon that fact. You're free to disagree with the idea / construct of rights, and this would make you a nihilist, but I don't think you're a nihilist, in fact, I don't think anyone is really a nihilist, even if they claim to be...

    However, my question is, should this conception of human nature based rights change as we learn more about biology, the brain, and other scientific topics?
    Rights are based upon the most intrinsic and universal element of human nature (self-determination, self-ownership, individual sovereignty) which means it is unchanging, which means there is nothing we could learn about biology that would alter these human universals.

    And please do not reply with "Ugh, you just need to be a scholar on this subject and read these 53 books!" as you tend to do.
    Show me where I have said this.

  10. #310
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If the government said no? Of course not.
    So, if the government told you to stab yourself in the eye, you'd do it?

    Rights can be taken away and given as I have seen with my own eyes in other country's. It is always done by government in every case.
    How can something that does not physically exist be taken away or given out?

    Rights as a concept is one thing. Rights in reality is another.
    I'm not sure what you mean by this.

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