View Poll Results: Are Rights Natural?

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  • Yes.

    27 40.30%
  • No.

    32 47.76%
  • Other.

    6 8.96%
  • Rootabega.

    16 23.88%
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Thread: Are Rights Natural?

  1. #221
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Harry hits the nail on the head. Any right exists because you believe it. I'm glad one of the libertarians seem to get it.
    And to me, it's natural.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They exist because I say they do, rights only exist in the mind and they can only continue to exist with the use of violence.
    Exactly, they're subjective which is what I've been saying all along. They exist because you and the society in which you live want them to exist, not for any other reason.

    Now if only you could convince some of the other libertarians.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #223
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I have, you've rejected anything which is counter to your preconceived notions. I've shown how the belief is justified, I've even pointed out philosophers whom developed some of the theory; you can read them if you want. I didn't ignore anything, you've ignored the argument and blatantly reject it without any amount of entertainment of the argument. So I don't know what you want. If you were just asking for proof and were justified in the quandary, I wouldn't call it abusive. It's abusive when you just start in with insults and outright rejection of all argument. It's not debate, it's not mature, it's not intellectually honest. That's all there is to say about it.
    Really? Link me to the post where you explained all of those things. After all, you say you did it, it shouldn't be so hard.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #224
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Really? Link me to the post where you explained all of those things. After all, you say you did it, it shouldn't be so hard.
    Why? You rejected it the first time through, why should I now expect you to accept arguments of Locke or Kant now? Go back if you want the information, but you've not shown a penchant for honest engagement in the discussion of natural rights. I've argued the basis of what natural rights can be, the difference between natural rights, legal rights, and social contract. I've put forth argument that rights are a check upon government power, and the necessities of rights. People seem to be caught up in the ideas of abstract. That because rights can be discovered through reason and because they are an abstract ideal that somehow they are worthless and can't exist in the least. But humans can understand and use the abstract and the notion of rights is incredibly useful, powerful, and necessary. But you're not interested, you get caught up on "abstract". And from that point on you reject all argument. You can go back and find where I made these arguments, but I doubt your readiness to try to engage on an intellectually honest level.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  5. #225
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Exactly, they're subjective which is what I've been saying all along. They exist because you and the society in which you live want them to exist, not for any other reason.

    Now if only you could convince some of the other libertarians.
    I think some kinds of societies require rights in order for it to exist.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #226
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'm not here to be impressive, but to get to actual, defensible answers and demonstrable truths. Funny how most people don't have either.
    We've provided both. You're just too busy beating up a strawman to notice.

    A right is just a philosophical construct based upon human nature. It's not a magic forcefield that protects people from harm, but if you want to keep pretending that's what we think it is, I'm not going to stop you from sounding like a fool.

  7. #227
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    See, that's exactly the question I keep asking. What are these rights based on? Where do they come from? On what authority do they exist? How do they know they exist? How were they discovered? How do they figure out which ones are rights and which ones are wishful thinking? These are questions that never get answered and, when pressed, the questioner gets called names.

    Ultimately, "natural rights" looks more like a religion than a well-reasoned, critically-examined credible position. Maybe that's what Ikari is afraid people are going to find out.
    All these questions are just extensions of your lame strawman. The fact that you're so impressed with your strawman is a testament to your arrogance...

  8. #228
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Harry hits the nail on the head. Any right exists because you believe it. I'm glad one of the libertarians seem to get it.


    No, rights do not "exist". The only people who think this are the three morons in this thread beating up their lame strawman.

    Rights are just philosophical constructs. They are based upon human nature and the desire of each human to exercise sovereignty over their own person. A right is simply an expression of human nature, a moral sentiment that affirms our sovereignty over life and property. No one thinks a "right" can protect you or keep you from harm.

    So, please, refrain from making your snide little comments about someone getting "it". Because "it" is nothing more than a stupid strawman that you and others have erected in attempt to bolster your own absurd positions.

  9. #229
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post


    No, rights do not "exist". The only people who think this are the three morons in this thread beating up their lame strawman.

    Rights are just philosophical constructs. They are based upon human nature and the desire of each human to exercise sovereignty over their own person. A right is simply an expression of human nature, a moral sentiment that affirms our sovereignty over life and property. No one thinks a "right" can protect you or keep you from harm.

    So, please, refrain from making your snide little comments about someone getting "it". Because "it" is nothing more than a stupid strawman that you and others have erected in attempt to bolster your own absurd positions.
    What does Locke say?

  10. #230
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    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Exactly, they're subjective which is what I've been saying all along. They exist because you and the society in which you live want them to exist, not for any other reason.

    Now if only you could convince some of the other libertarians.


    Rights don't physically exist. They're just abstract concepts with an objective basis in human nature. We all understand that people can and will reject such concepts, mostly because they're tyrants, and do not want to recognize the innate desire of all humans to exercise sovereignty over their person and property.

    But keep beating up that strawman, Cephus....

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