View Poll Results: Are Rights Natural?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    27 40.30%
  • No.

    32 47.76%
  • Other.

    6 8.96%
  • Rootabega.

    16 23.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 19 of 36 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 352

Thread: Are Rights Natural?

  1. #181
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Interesting approach. I don't agree, but I applaud the thinking behind it. You are correct in that there are many practical benefits to the Natural Law Philosophy, however I think the approach is too limited in many aspects.
    How is individual liberty and sovereignty limited? Do you value your individual sovereignty and liberty? Doesn't every person on the planet? Shouldn't we recognize this inherent quality and endeavor to protect it?

    The philosophy of natural rights is not this soundbite you and others are making it out to be. You can't just take the core political philosophy of the Founding Fathers and dismiss it with "it's limited". That's intellectually dishonest and lazy.

  2. #182
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    oh...my...heck...

    seriously?

    The CONCEPT of RIGHTS is an IDEA...nothing more. I have said that from the OUTSET. It is absolutely intangible.

    and NOW you say...gosh...its just an abstract idea...I dont know why people have such a hard time with it...

    I...I...

    I give up...
    Okay!? So you've been arguing against a strawman the whole time. Congratulations on beating up that strawman. It was really impressive.

  3. #183
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,705

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Yes, I think we're aware of that. I'm not sure what your point is.
    Im thinking if you read back where rights are asserted by certain others to be real and something people have and deserve based on their nature as 'humans' you will see that my position from the outset has been consistent. If we ALL have these mythical 'rights' then it would stand to reason that it is a UNIVERSAL CONCEPT. However it is also OBVIOUS that it is not now nor has it ever BEEN the case. And if it DOESNT EXIST...then it isnt really a 'right' so much as it is dream...a concept...a fantasy...an 'idea'. WE assert the WORD and MEANING of 'rights'. That CERTAINLY doesnt make it VALID.

  4. #184
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,705

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Okay!? So you've been arguing against a strawman the whole time. Congratulations on beating up that strawman. It was really impressive.
    Congratulations on immediately jumping in BED with it. Hope you brought protection...please dont give details...

  5. #185
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Im thinking if you read back where rights are asserted by certain others to be real and something people have and deserve based on their nature as 'humans' you will see that my position from the outset has been consistent. If we ALL have these mythical 'rights' then it would stand to reason that it is a UNIVERSAL CONCEPT. However it is also OBVIOUS that it is not now nor has it ever BEEN the case. And if it DOESNT EXIST...then it isnt really a 'right' so much as it is dream...a concept...a fantasy...an 'idea'. WE assert the WORD and MEANING of 'rights'. That CERTAINLY doesnt make it VALID.
    Rights are based upon a universal concept, that is, human nature. That's why they're called "natural rights". When someone says they "have" a right, they don't mean they physically possess something. It's just an expression of something inherent to humans, i.e., individual sovereignty.

    Stop beating up your strawman, he's had enough already....

  6. #186
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Congratulations on immediately jumping in BED with it. Hope you brought protection...please dont give details...
    Uhhhhh, what?


    Nevermind, I'm not interested...

  7. #187
    blond bombshell

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    uk
    Last Seen
    10-19-12 @ 11:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,729

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Natural has become a useless term.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

  8. #188
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    Natural has become a useless term.
    And why is that? Because you say so?

    It's flippant comments like this that cheapen the debates around here...

  9. #189
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    How is individual liberty and sovereignty limited? Do you value your individual sovereignty and liberty? Doesn't every person on the planet? Shouldn't we recognize this inherent quality and endeavor to protect it?
    I was referring to the practical effects of the philosophy. The interpretation of it that I most often see imposes limitations on society that I think are unnecessary and prevent us from progressing towards what I think would be a more optimal social organization that would help prevent the loss of life, hunger, and other evils. In my view, people are often more important than concepts.

    The ideas do have a certain appeal, but in some cases, they appear to do more harm than good. I am less concerned with the logic of it and more concern with what happens in the real world as a result of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The philosophy of natural rights is not this soundbite you and others are making it out to be. You can't just take the core political philosophy of the Founding Fathers and dismiss it with "it's limited". That's intellectually dishonest and lazy.
    I don't care if you think it is a sound bite or not. I do. There is nothing that prevents me from thinking otherwise. Really that's all that's necessary since it is only an idea or a group of ideas.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-02-10 at 08:46 PM.

  10. #190
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,184

    Re: Are Rights Natural?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I was referring to the practical effects of the philosophy. The interpretation of it that I most often see imposes limitations on society that I think are unnecessary and prevent us from progressing towards what I think would be a more optimal social organization that would help prevent the loss of life, hunger, and other evils.

    The ideas do have a certain appeal, but in some cases, they appear to do more harm than good. I am less concerned with the logic of it and more concern with what happens in the real world as a result of it.


    Dude, that is what scares me. Your statement is one step away from "We must give up these concepts of individual rights for the sake of Social Progress and the Common Good."

    This has been the rallying cry of many oppressive tyrants and movements. The end results are always ugly.

    Boy, that whole free speech thing sure does suck, when it allows some bozo with a microphone to diss your agenda, doesn't it? (/irony)

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

Page 19 of 36 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •