View Poll Results: Where did the Universe come from?

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  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    39 38.24%
  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    37 36.27%
  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    13 12.75%
  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    9 8.82%
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Thread: Where did the Universe come from?

  1. #311
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib
    The universe is a closed system.
    Actually the universe can't be a closed system because of the fact that it is defined as everything we know and we also know that it is acted upon by what we do not know, so until humanity has complete knowledge of everything (which is impossible) it will never be a closed system.

    You are the one claiming the universe does not end. Prove it.
    Does matter or energy "end"?

    There is no evidence of God. Reason supports the existence of God, once you have started with the premise that God exists. It is a matter of faith and not reasoning.
    Ah but I already addressed your contradiction, to which you have not replied.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  2. #312
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Actually the universe can't be a closed system because of the fact that it is defined as everything we know and we also know that it is acted upon by what we do not know, so until humanity has complete knowledge of everything (which is impossible) it will never be a closed system.
    Nonsense. The universe contains everything, therefore it is enclosed in an implicit adiabatic wall and is closed thermodynamically.



    Does matter or energy "end"?
    Do they begin?



    Ah but I already addressed your contradiction, to which you have not replied.
    Contradiction? I must have missed that. Could you repeat it, please?

  3. #313
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Contradiction? I must have missed that. Could you repeat it, please?
    You can always scroll up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Quote Originally Posted by You
    God is not something. God is not nothing. God is spirit and underlies the entire universe. Everything in the universe is a part of God. God is in everything. God is found in the smallest and in the largest.

    It is a matter of belief. There is no evidence for it.
    If god is "everything" then god is the universe, which goes against nearly all religious teachings about what god is and its capacity as a being.

    Moreover, something cannot be neither "something" nor "nothing". You make that silly statement then you go on to say "god is..." So you contradict yourself by both saying "god is not something" and "god is spirit" that "is in everything" and can be "found in the smallest and the largest". Saying these things implies that god is "something" and "somewhere" and therefore you're contradicting yourself.

    You can believe that god is both something and not something and not nothing, but you might as well also believe that a is both equal to a and not equal to a. In other words, when you do that you are throwing out all form of reason or rational thought and we can't take you seriously.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #314
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Ahh, I totally missed this, or I would have responded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If god is "everything" then god is the universe, which goes against nearly all religious teachings about what god is and its capacity as a being.
    First, God is not a being. Second, God is omnipresent, so of course God is the universe.

    Moreover, something cannot be neither "something" nor "nothing". You make that silly statement then you go on to say "god is..." So you contradict yourself by both saying "god is not something" and "god is spirit" that "is in everything" and can be "found in the smallest and the largest". Saying these things implies that god is "something" and "somewhere" and therefore you're contradicting yourself.
    Spirit is not something, as in spirit is not some thing.

    You can believe that god is both something and not something and not nothing, but you might as well also believe that a is both equal to a and not equal to a. In other words, when you do that you are throwing out all form of reason or rational thought and we can't take you seriously.
    God is both rational and irrational thought. God is omniscient.

  5. #315
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The universe is a closed system.
    We don't know the limits and boundaries of the universe so we don't know where to say that it is closed.

    Your simple assertion that the universe is closed is conceptually fine but it is not understood or defined to our knowledge. But where is it closed at exactly and how do you know? You don't know, that's the problem. You are making the same mistake that prehistoric man would thinking that the earth is the universe and is a closed system.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    You are the one claiming the universe does not end. Prove it.
    I don't know whether the universe will end or not or if that's even a valid question! That is the ONLY rational conclusion to arrive at due to a lack of evidence and reason.
    Apparently you can't handle not knowing so you are willing to accept any explanation that you feel best explains things. Rather, you should only accept explanations that can be verified and demonstrated as true.
    You need to learn to accept that sometimes we just don't know, and may never know.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    There is no evidence of God. Reason supports the existence of God
    please provide reasoning for the existence of God. But before that please define your god.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    once you have started with the premise that God exists. It is a matter of faith and not reasoning.
    Here is an example to demonstrate the absurdity in your claim:
    once you have started with the premise that fairyies exist. It is a matter of faith and not reasoning.

    With your reasoning anything can be claimed to exist. Your reasoning is demonstrably useless and flawed.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  6. #316
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    First, God is not a being. Second, God is omnipresent, so of course God is the universe.
    To be omnipresent one has to occupy space and time.

    Spirit is not something, as in spirit is not some thing.
    What?

    God is both rational and irrational thought. God is omniscient.
    I was referring to your thought, or rather your (lack of) reasoning.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    We don't know the limits and boundaries of the universe so we don't know where to say that it is closed.
    Sure we do. It is at X. There is nothing beyond X. X describes the boundary of existence. It is closed.

    Rather, you should only accept explanations that can be verified and demonstrated as true.
    There is no reason to limit explanations to those that can be verified and demonstrated as true.

    please provide reasoning for the existence of God. But before that please define your god.
    God is.
    God is ALL.
    God is omniscient.
    God is omnipresent.
    God is omnipotent.


    Here is an example to demonstrate the absurdity in your claim:
    once you have started with the premise that fairyies exist. It is a matter of faith and not reasoning.

    With your reasoning anything can be claimed to exist. Your reasoning is demonstrably useless and flawed.
    Ok, fairyies exist. A matter of faith you say. What do they do and what are they for. Unless they are idempotent with God, it is meaningless.

  8. #318
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    To be omnipresent one has to occupy space and time.
    Indeed. That is what I said. God is the universe (and more).



    What?
    Spirit is not something. Spirit is not nothing.

  9. #319
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Sure we do. It is at X. There is nothing beyond X. X describes the boundary of existence. It is closed.
    what is the exact boundary? Is the boundary of the universe p-branes? Is it just what we can see? What about multiple universes?
    See you don't know where to draw the line of where the universe is closed. You simply assert it is closed and since you can't demonstrate or show where its closed your claims regarding the 2nd law of thermo dynamics are unfounded and premature.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    There is no reason to limit explanations to those that can be verified and demonstrated as true.
    I didn't say you should limit explanations. I said there is no valid reason to BELIEVE that which can't be demonstrated.

    If you don't care whether what you believe is true or not then continue with your beliefs. If you DO care then perhaps you should employ some means of confirming and verifying that your beliefs are true. So far you haven't explained any way in which you do such.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God is
    god is what? Or are you asserting god exists?.
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God is ALL.
    we have a word for what everything is already. We call it the universe. How is your use of the word god different then the use of the word universe. Or are you just equivocating?
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God is omniscient.
    so does that mean there is nothing God does not know?
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God is omnipresent.
    ok
    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God is omnipotent.
    can god defy logic? Can god make himself non-existant but still exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, fairyies exist. A matter of faith you say. What do they do and what are they for. Unless they are idempotent with God, it is meaningless.
    What if I were to claim that fairyies are responsible for some phenomenon just as you claim God is the cause of certain events and phenomenon?
    See how absurd claiming truth is when its based on faith? Its useless. it has no value.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #320
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    what is the exact boundary? Is the boundary of the universe p-branes? Is it just what we can see? What about multiple universes?
    See you don't know where to draw the line of where the universe is closed. You simply assert it is closed and since you can't demonstrate or show where its closed your claims regarding the 2nd law of thermo dynamics are unfounded and premature.
    It is infinite and closed.


    I didn't say you should limit explanations. I said there is no valid reason to BELIEVE that which can't be demonstrated.
    Sure there is. Faith. It is valid.

    If you don't care whether what you believe is true or not then continue with your beliefs. If you DO care then perhaps you should employ some means of confirming and verifying that your beliefs are true. So far you haven't explained any way in which you do such.
    Since the first post I have stated that God cannot be proven or demonstrated. Yet God exists. How do I know? Faith.

    god is what? Or are you asserting god exists?.
    There is no simpler sentence in existence.

    we have a word for what everything is already. We call it the universe. How is your use of the word god different then the use of the word universe. Or are you just equivocating?
    The universe is everything, but God is more.

    so does that mean there is nothing God does not know?
    true.

    can god defy logic? Can god make himself non-existant but still exist?
    indeed.


    What if I were to claim that fairyies are responsible for some phenomenon just as you claim God is the cause of certain events and phenomenon?
    See how absurd claiming truth is when its based on faith? Its useless. it has no value.
    No value to you, perhaps, but plenty of value to me.

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