View Poll Results: Where did the Universe come from?

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  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    39 38.24%
  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    37 36.27%
  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    13 12.75%
  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    9 8.82%
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Thread: Where did the Universe come from?

  1. #181
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You're now assuming it lacks perfect knowledge. Ie, you're now claiming it is not omniscient, which is consistent with my claim that freewill cannot exist in a universe created by an omniscient omnipotent being. You concur, and remove the being's omniscience.
    Ha! I said no such thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Furthermore, the universe is an indeterminant place. Quantum mechanics dictate randomness and it relies on the observer. So, again, God did not plan, yet God has knowledge.
    Yes, the Universe IS indeterminate from our viewpoint. Are you now claiming your omnipotent Goddess is limited to our human point of view?
    Nope.


    You keep making the assertion so devoutly.

    I'm going to go eat.
    I love how worked up non-believers get trying to disprove the existence of God and her act of creation.

    I am off to bed.

  2. #182
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It is not the only contradiction in the world. How can we be a nation of peace and go to war every 10-20 years?

    These things are true:
    God is omniscient
    God is omnipotent
    God is omnipresent
    God created the universe
    We each have freewill

    Just because God knows what decision we will make doesn't mean that we did not make it with freewill.
    If God knows what decision we will make & is the creator of the universe that means that we cannot make a decision without her already knowing since creation, what we will choose.

    Thus all our actions and all the events of the universe were predetermined by God when he created everything.

    Reiterating that "we still decide" or "we still have freewill" isn't an argument and does nothing to invalidate the logic above. Its just denial.
    Last edited by scourge99; 03-02-10 at 12:04 AM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  3. #183
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    If God knows what decision we will make & is the creator of the universe that means that we cannot make a decision without her already knowing since creation, what we will choose.

    Thus all our actions and all the events of the universe were predetermined by God when he created everything.
    But all you have to do is trick God by deciding to do something, and then at the last second do the opposite!

    Oh, wait, God knew you were going to change your mind. Foiled by the Omniscient Being again!

  4. #184
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I'm curious as to why you think the origin of the universe is intelligent.

    Are you aware of the fatal flaws of the watchmaker argument?

    If you believe that the origin of the universe isn't necessarilly intelligent then you should probably describe it with some other label than God. God implies some sort of intelligence or conscious entity. It would be like describing natural causes like the flowing of water as divine. Perhaps you are a pantheist.
    Human can not conceptualize what came before the universe, if there was anything.
    All I can do is ascribe everything I see to "God."

    As I said before, I can't be an atheist it doesn't feel right with me.
    I don't feel whole trying to be one, which means I probably was never one in the first place.

    Modern religions, to me, seem like nothing but shallow husks of what they were probably meant to be.

    At this point I don't care if it sounds illogical because I can't explain it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #185
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    No vote
    The universe always was and will forever be. Time is irreverent, its only an invention of man.
    A big bang may have occurred; there is still so much that we do not know.
    God and Mother Nature could be one and the same.

  6. #186
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It is not the only contradiction in the world. How can we be a nation of peace and go to war every 10-20 years?

    These things are true:
    God is omniscient
    God is omnipotent
    God is omnipresent
    God created the universe
    We each have freewill

    Just because God knows what decision we will make doesn't mean that we did not make it with freewill.
    If god knows all and sees all and also created everything, is it possible that he regrets or feels sorry for anything that he has made or does? Just curious as to what you think.

  7. #187
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    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    No vote
    The universe always was and will forever be. Time is irreverent, its only an invention of man.
    A big bang may have occurred; there is still so much that we do not know.
    God and Mother Nature could be one and the same.
    the measurement of time is a human invention, time would flow regardless of life
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  8. #188
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    No vote
    The universe always was and will forever be. Time is irreverent, its only an invention of man.
    A big bang may have occurred; there is still so much that we do not know.
    God and Mother Nature could be one and the same.
    Does this describe your beliefs? Probably not perfectly but close?
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism]Pantheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  9. #189
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?


  10. #190
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Human can not conceptualize what came before the universe, if there was anything.
    I wouldn't go that far. You are making the positive claim that we can not know and never will. However, all we know is that we don't know now. We don't know what came "before" the big bang in the same way ancient man did not know what caused lightening and thunder.

    To proclaim that we will never know would be like ancient man claiming we would never understand the skies and the stars.

    We must accept our ignorance and simply live based on what we do know. That is all we can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    All I can do is ascribe everything I see to "God."
    I'm curious as to why you think the origin of the universe is intelligent? Its a big jump from believing the universe had a specific cause to believing that the universes cause is an intelligence of some type. I'm curious to know why you came to the conclusion you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    As I said before, I can't be an atheist it doesn't feel right with me.
    I don't feel whole trying to be one, which means I probably was never one in the first place.
    I'm not an atheist by choice. I don't choose my beliefs. My view and understanding of reality dictates what I believe.

    To put it simply, I cannot stop being an atheist anymore than I can stop believing the sky is blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    At this point I don't care if it sounds illogical because I can't explain it.
    That is, of course, your choice.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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