View Poll Results: Where did the Universe come from?

Voters
102. You may not vote on this poll
  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    39 38.24%
  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    37 36.27%
  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    13 12.75%
  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    9 8.82%
Page 17 of 39 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 385

Thread: Where did the Universe come from?

  1. #161
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You've redefined "omniscient" to mean "He knows exactly what's going to happen except when He doesn't know".

    Freewill on the part of the creation, given the boundary conditions of a perfect creation, means the Creator either HAS to know what the Creation is going to do, at all times, or know nothing about future events. There's no inbetween.

    She's either loading the dice or peeking, or not looking at all.

    But you've redefined "omniscient" to mean something else, because your preconceptions of what freewill is override your desire to use words properly in context.

    God, if She's going to know that Antoine Shermerhorn is going to be the first man to die in a crash on the Moon Europa, is going to have to know that the sperm that made Antoine carried the Y-chromsome, not the X. So She is going to have to have positive knowledge of his father's every sperm, and his grandfathers, and his ...well, you get the picture. So Antoine's "free choice" in dying on Europa is predicated on the precisely deterministic knowledge of his heritage than only exact planning at the original moment of creation can give the Creatrix.
    The Creator knows exactly what will happen at all times.
    The Creator creates the universe with freewill by humans.
    The Creator does not plan all events, She just has knowledge of them.

    She can't "know" if She didn't plan it out in the first place.
    Not true. She can allow freewill and know the results but have had no planning to make it happen.

  2. #162
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I chose "God created it, then it evolved" because that best describes my thoughts about it for the past 30 years or so. Granted, my idea of "God" is not typical, but describes more of a creative and mental energy as opposed to a human-type super-being.
    That is roughly my view. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that you "creative and mental energy" pervades every corner of creation and is the foundation on which all is built: souls, minds, forces, and matter.

  3. #163
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The Creator knows exactly what will happen at all times.
    The Creator creates the universe with freewill by humans.
    The Creator does not plan all events, She just has knowledge of them.
    See what I mean about making up your own definitions so you won't offend your own religious sensibilities?

    Too bad the real world does't work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Not true. She can allow freewill and know the results but have had no planning to make it happen.
    Not if He was the one creating the universe, She can't. It did, after all, have to make Perfect choices about the Perfectly best position to put every little particle and brane, and where not to put them, if She was going to be Perfectly Omniscient about what was going to happen next.

    But, as I said, people who believe in the myth of a Perfectly Omnipotent and Omniscient Creator Thingy like to believe they have free will, and they have to bastardize the meanings of words so that words don't have meaning to reconcile what are two completely irreconcilable world views.

    For some reason, many people don't want to admit that if their God created them, She promptly forgot about them and doesn't give a crap one way or the other. Children do so want to be loved, don't they?

  4. #164
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    See what I mean about making up your own definitions so you won't offend your own religious sensibilities?

    Too bad the real world does't work that way.
    Since you FAILED to point out anything wrong, in your opinion, about what I wrote, I'll ignore your comment.



    Not if He was the one creating the universe, She can't. It did, after all, have to make Perfect choices about the Perfectly best position to put every little particle and brane, and where not to put them, if She was going to be Perfectly Omniscient about what was going to happen next.
    Absolutely not! As I said She did not plan every detail, but has knowledge of them. She created the Universe with a Big Bang and then let it evolve. She did NOT plan every particle.

    But, as I said, people who believe in the myth of a Perfectly Omnipotent and Omniscient Creator Thingy like to believe they have free will, and they have to bastardize the meanings of words so that words don't have meaning to reconcile what are two completely irreconcilable world views.
    Blah, blah, blah more accusatory bull**** with nothing backing it up. You are lame.

    For some reason, many people don't want to admit that if their God created them, She promptly forgot about them and doesn't give a crap one way or the other. Children do so want to be loved, don't they?
    She knows and cares and lives through Her creation.

  5. #165
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Your conclusion is wrong. God created everything, including giving humans freewill. It so happens that She knows how everything turns out because she is omniscient. But She didn't act on that foreknowledge. She still allowed for "choice".
    that is contradictory.

    "Choice" would be doing something that God doesn't know you will do or didn't set you up to do. If God doesn't know then She is NOT omniscient. If she knows what you will do before you do it then she is OMNISCIENT.

    You lose freewill because she also set you up to do everything you will do. She knows that you would do before she created the universe AND because she created everything she knows exactly how it will unfold. There is no room in there for free will unless you remove one or more of the following:
    1) God is perfectly omniscient
    2) God is perfectly omnipotent
    3) God creating the universe.

    All you are doing is repeating over and over again that God gave us freewill. But as we've shown its contradictory to an omniscient, omnipotent god who created the universe. Its like stating that 1+1=2 but that 2-1 =/= 1. You can say it in a different way but you are still contradicting yourself.
    Last edited by scourge99; 03-01-10 at 10:45 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  6. #166
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Since you FAILED to point out anything wrong, in your opinion, about what I wrote, I'll ignore your comment.
    Go ahead, ignorance is a proven way of preserving religious bias.


    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Absolutely not! As I said She did not plan every detail, but has knowledge of them.
    Not possible by definition.

    If She puts a neutrino at X,Y,Z,A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I in space with a momentum vector of let's call it "fred", then She had to choose to put it there. And choices are informed decisions, since, being Omniscient, He can't not know what will happen if A is rotated thirty degrees. Also, It can't now, when putting the peices together, that if this particular carbon atom came from Star 815,423,344,342, at coordinates, "yougetthepicture", because, if that carbon atom had been elsewhere, it would have had to follow a different path to get where it was needed to be in the sugar holding that chromosome's of Shumaker I mentioned earlier. Omniscience works both ways, of course. It's actually a curse.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    She created the Universe with a Big Bang and then let it evolve. She did NOT plan every particle.
    Then, since specif people are made of specific particles, He can't know what's happening, since there's this gigantic difference between X and Y chromosomes. Also, if It doesn't know what every particle is doing, It isn't Omniscient.

  7. #167
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    that is contradictory.

    "Choice" would be doing something that God doesn't know you will do or didn't set you up to do.
    No. God can know what choice you make and it is still your choice.

    If God doesn't know then She is NOT omniscient. If she knows what you will do before you do it then she is OMNISCIENT.
    She is OMNISCIENT.

    You lose freewill because she also set you up to do everything you will do. She knows that you would do before she created the universe AND because she created everything she knows exactly how it will unfold. There is no room in there for free will unless you remove one or more of the following:
    1) God is perfectly omniscient
    2) God is perfectly omnipotent
    3) God creating the universe.
    I totally disagree. She knows but it is still your choice.

    All you are doing is repeating over and over again that God gave us freewill. But as we've shown its contradictory to an omniscient, omnipotent god who created the universe. Its like stating that 1+1=2 but that 2-1 =/= 1. You can say it in a different way but you are still contradicting yourself.
    You haven't shown anything.

  8. #168
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Go ahead, ignorance is a proven way of preserving religious bias.
    Blow me. You didn't point out anything wrong, you just said I was wrong.

    Then, since specif people are made of specific particles, He can't know what's happening, since there's this gigantic difference between X and Y chromosomes. Also, if It doesn't know what every particle is doing, It isn't Omniscient.
    Sure she can. She knows how it will evolve but did not place particle X at Y. Still particle X is at Y. She didn't plan it but she knows.

  9. #169
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No. God can know what choice you make and it is still your choice.
    How can you have a choice if she created everything knowing exactly what choices you will make BEFORE she created everything?

    How is that a choice?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #170
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How can you have a choice if she created everything knowing exactly what choices you will make BEFORE she created everything?

    How is that a choice?
    At the time, you decide what you will do. Choice. You could have decided differently. God just happens to know what choice you make before you make it.

Page 17 of 39 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •