View Poll Results: Where did the Universe come from?

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  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    39 38.24%
  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    37 36.27%
  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    13 12.75%
  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    9 8.82%
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Thread: Where did the Universe come from?

  1. #151
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    She will make it with freewill for the people. It is still the people's choice and not determined by God, but God knows what will happen because She is omniscient.
    Choose your own adventure!!

    1) Before god created everything did he know exactly how it would turn out?

    If no) then god is not omniscient. End here.
    If yes) continue

    2) Did god create the universe?
    If no) then god is not the creator of all the universe. End here
    If yes) continue

    Conclusions) If god created everything and knew how everything would turn out then you have no "choice". You are merely doing what god foresaw you would do when he created everything at the beginning.
    End.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  2. #152
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No, God did not have to come from somewhere as God is everlasting.
    if a 'god' can be everlasting then so can anything else. Like... the energy that created the universe.

  3. #153
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No, where have I done this?
    You've redefined "omniscient" to mean "He knows exactly what's going to happen except when He doesn't know".

    Freewill on the part of the creation, given the boundary conditions of a perfect creation, means the Creator either HAS to know what the Creation is going to do, at all times, or know nothing about future events. There's no inbetween.

    She's either loading the dice or peeking, or not looking at all.

    But you've redefined "omniscient" to mean something else, because your preconceptions of what freewill is override your desire to use words properly in context.

    God, if She's going to know that Antoine Shermerhorn is going to be the first man to die in a crash on the Moon Europa, is going to have to know that the sperm that made Antoine carried the Y-chromsome, not the X. So She is going to have to have positive knowledge of his father's every sperm, and his grandfathers, and his ...well, you get the picture. So Antoine's "free choice" in dying on Europa is predicated on the precisely deterministic knowledge of his heritage than only exact planning at the original moment of creation can give the Creatrix. She can't "know" if She didn't plan it out in the first place.

  4. #154
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    if a 'god' can be everlasting then so can anything else.
    Not unless God wanted it that way.

  5. #155
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Where did the Universe come from?
    Probably somewhere. That's for sure.

  6. #156
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    I chose "God created it, then it evolved" because that best describes my thoughts about it for the past 30 years or so. Granted, my idea of "God" is not typical, but describes more of a creative and mental energy as opposed to a human-type super-being.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  7. #157
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You've redefined "omniscient" to mean "He knows exactly what's going to happen except when He doesn't know".

    Freewill on the part of the creation, given the boundary conditions of a perfect creation, means the Creator either HAS to know what the Creation is going to do, at all times, or know nothing about future events. There's no inbetween.

    She's either loading the dice or peeking, or not looking at all.

    But you've redefined "omniscient" to mean something else, because your preconceptions of what freewill is override your desire to use words properly in context.

    God, if She's going to know that Antoine Shermerhorn is going to be the first man to die in a crash on the Moon Europa, is going to have to know that the sperm that made Antoine carried the Y-chromsome, not the X. So She is going to have to have positive knowledge of his father's every sperm, and his grandfathers, and his ...well, you get the picture. So Antoine's "free choice" in dying on Europa is predicated on the precisely deterministic knowledge of his heritage than only exact planning at the original moment of creation can give the Creatrix. She can't "know" if She didn't plan it out in the first place.
    The version I've heard is that god sets everything up so that he knows it will all work out in the end while still allowing autonomy.

    E.G., god creates a giant rat maze and puts everyone in it. There are lots of areas to go in the maze but only one exit.

    In other words, god sets up our conditions such that we are bounded in our actions but still free.

    Of course the glaring flaw in this whole thing is that its based on nothing but imagination. It has no basis in reality and isn't verifiable.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #158
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    She will make it with freewill for the people. It is still the people's choice and not determined by God, but God knows what will happen because She is omniscient.
    If there is a God, he is obviously a man. If God was a chick, she would have spent the last 4 billion years constantly repainting the universe, moving planets and galaxies around, having old creation yard sales, and would have a gay friend to help pick out new planet colors and crap like that.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #159
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Choose your own adventure!!

    1) Before god created everything did he know exactly how it would turn out?
    yes) continue

    2) Did god create the universe?
    yes) continue

    Conclusions) If god created everything and knew how everything would turn out then you have no "choice". You are merely doing what god foresaw you would do when he created everything at the beginning.
    End.
    Your conclusion is wrong. God created everything, including giving humans freewill. It so happens that She knows how everything turns out because she is omniscient. But She didn't act on that foreknowledge. She still allowed for "choice".

  10. #160
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    if a 'god' can be everlasting then so can anything else. Like... the energy that created the universe.
    The universe was created. It was created with a certain amount of energy. It's creation defined the beginning (and end) of time. There is conservation of energy so energy lasts the length of time of the universe. God created the universe and time. "Everlasting" is longer than the time of the universe, we just have no way of measuring it.

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