View Poll Results: Where did the Universe come from?

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  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    39 38.24%
  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    37 36.27%
  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    13 12.75%
  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    9 8.82%
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Thread: Where did the Universe come from?

  1. #121
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The use of the word "God" is an anthropomorphism indicative of a directed will as opposed to the natural progression of insensate force.

    The Universe either was, or was not, created by an intelligent entity. That entity is typically referred to as "God".
    God is more than just the creator. God also underlies all energy and matter in the universe. Anything you look at is a part of God. God is everywhere present (omnipresence).

  2. #122
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God had to perfectly conceptualize the universe to create it, since the universe came from spirit -> thought -> energy -> matter.
    What in the world makes you think that universes are created in that way (assuming they are created). It sounds like its pure speculation derived solely from religious promotional material.

    Your last few posts are littered with one unsubstantiated assertion after another.
    Are we to believe anything that can be conceptualized? Why is your beliefs on the matter truth?

    For most beliefs we require evidence or conformance to our knowledge. I don't see how anything you propose is evidenced or conforms to our knowledge of reality. Do you claim to be inspired by supernatural revelation or guidance? Or do you simply believe others who claim such?
    Last edited by scourge99; 03-01-10 at 07:45 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  3. #123
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    God is more than just the creator. God also underlies all energy and matter in the universe. Anything you look at is a part of God. God is everywhere present (omnipresence).
    No.

    I don't worship friggin' inanimate planets or natural forces. They're THINGS. The word "God" refers to a conscious entity having free will and the ability to act on that will.

    If it's just the sum of natural forces, without consciousness or ability, then it's just a thing. Giraffes make turds. They don't think about it, and there's nothing special about it.

  4. #124
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I just about totally agree with you until you claimed ID, crap. It isn't science, but this does not mean it is not useful to learn about. I would make sure to include creation myths from the whole world and not just Christian ID (which I know very little about - but some proponents are freaky)
    It's not science and the only purpose served in learning about it is to learn how charlatans can use pseudo-scientific language to promote a non-scientific religious viewpoint. If the goal is to learn the science of biology, the time spent coverind ID would be better spent using a microscope to check feces for parasitic worms.

  5. #125
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    When the ID "scientists" present a testable theory for their claims then it will be considered a scientific claim. Until then its just, at best, philosophy, if not blatently theology. None of which are sciences.

    If you want to teach ID then go ahead, but put it in a philosophy or religions course, not a science course.
    Since 'science' defines all these natural laws that cause the universe to function, why dont you think it would be a valid exercise to have people create a universe model? I think it would be EXTREMELY valuable to have students see what would happen if the earth was just another 100 miles away from its normal orbit.

    Notice...I am not even going to the religous aspect of intelligent design. Just leave the word out of it...no "Intelligent design"...call it Cosmos Building 101...

  6. #126
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Damn! I have been consciously trying my damndest to avoid this pronoun and instead using the proper noun, God, throughout this conversation. I knew I used 'He' and thought about it all the way home and you nailed me!



    That would be cool. I posted a link earlier to Creation Myths and my dream class is to hash out some of the implications and physical interpretations of some of these myths. For instance,



    In my mind, these are all equivalent since I think that all creation myths are talking truthfully, although metaphorically, about the same event. The Bible uses land emerging from the water, although it is also creatio ex nihilo.
    I just wish everyone wasnt so damned afraid to have intelligent conversations about the stuff without having to feel the need to ram their version of the truth down other peoples throats...

    And totally joking about the gendered God thing...

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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    "Pro-bang"? That theory is taught because it, with the Inflation modification, is consistent with observed fact and accepted theory.

    The ID theology is not consistent with known fact nor is it testable, hence it is not a science and should not be taught in a science class as any valid approach to reality.

    There's no "hesitancy", the ID crap doesn't pass the standards of good science.
    sonova...motherf...

    How did I screw that up? What part of that gave ANY indication that it was a philosophical debate? Im talking the SCIENCE and PHYSICS of what makes the world go round...and what got us here.

    Good God....are people so AFRAID of the discussion of anything remotely God related that they cant see beyond their OWN fears and insecurities???

  8. #128
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    The Big Bang really isn't supported by science, rather it seems it is propagated by science because it is currently the "best" naturalistic explanation for the universe. This scientific site lists many reasons why the Big Bang is flawed Astronomy and Astrophysics Questions and Answers (scroll down to What are some of the problems with the ‘big bang’ hypothesis?). I believe in the intelligent design of the universe by the Intelligent Designer (God).

  9. #129
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    God had to perfectly conceptualize the universe to create it, since the universe came from spirit -> thought -> energy -> matter.
    What in the world makes you think that universes are created in that way (assuming they are created). It sounds like its pure speculation derived solely from religious promotional material.
    "Religious promotional material"!! I suppose that that is one way of putting it.

    To me, it is a very interesting, complete speculation on the structure and function of creation (to include the universe - matter and energy - and the other planes of reality). It is a stretch, no doubt about it.

    We have thoughts, but the idea that they are superior to energy is unproven and probably untestable. The closest you can come is the idea of "mind over body". The idea that energy emanated from the world of thought is speculative. The next level is even more unproven since we don't have evidence for spirits and souls.

    However, within that framework, it is easy to see the assertion that God is omniscient and that this is required to create the universe.

    Your last few posts are littered with one unsubstantiated assertion after another.
    Are we to believe anything that can be conceptualized? Why is your beliefs on the matter truth?

    For most beliefs we require evidence or conformance to our knowledge. I don't see how anything you propose is evidenced or conforms to our knowledge of reality. Do you claim to be inspired by supernatural revelation or guidance? Or do you simply believe others who claim such?
    My claims are clearly not testable or provable truth. They are a conceptualization of God and creation. I do NOT claim supernatural revelation or guidance.

    However, I do believe there have been others who can claim such - namely the divine incarnations (Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, etc)

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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No.

    I don't worship friggin' inanimate planets or natural forces. They're THINGS. The word "God" refers to a conscious entity having free will and the ability to act on that will.

    If it's just the sum of natural forces, without consciousness or ability, then it's just a thing. Giraffes make turds. They don't think about it, and there's nothing special about it.
    God has no form. God is no entity that is separate from creation. Creation is from his own spiritual substance.

    Everything created is created from God. God is conscious. Even the turd is a part of God and God's consciousness.

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