View Poll Results: Where did the Universe come from?

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  • From the Big Bang, not sure what was before. God does not exist and was not involved.

    39 38.24%
  • Not the Big Bang, but some other physical event. God does not exist and was not involved.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe without a Big Bang. Earth was especially created.

    2 1.96%
  • God created the Universe with a Big Bang and then the universe evolved.

    37 36.27%
  • Some other mechanism created the Universe, without God...

    13 12.75%
  • God created the Universe in some other fashion...

    9 8.82%
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Thread: Where did the Universe come from?

  1. #111
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    What do you mean "He"???

    I actually think if we would all (and by 'we' I mean the generic 'we'...not people on this board) put aside the NEED to be right and just allowed for discussion on the subject there is some FASCINATING things that could be learned. I understand the hesitancy of the pro-bang theory group to allow Intelligent Design to be taught in school...but man...can you think of a more cool class than one that taught the science and physics and offered students the opportunity to design a galxy...plug the info into computer models and see which students models didnt get all tore up. (sort of like the scaled bridge exercises).
    When the ID "scientists" present a testable theory for their claims then it will be considered a scientific claim. Until then its just, at best, philosophy, if not blatently theology. None of which are sciences.

    If you want to teach ID then go ahead, but put it in a philosophy or religions course, not a science course.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I think God is the supreme sentience. God is omniscient, remember.
    And why are any of those things required in order to create the universe?

    Edit: assuming it was created and hasn't always existed.
    Last edited by scourge99; 03-01-10 at 07:13 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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  3. #113
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    What do you mean "He"???
    Damn! I have been consciously trying my damndest to avoid this pronoun and instead using the proper noun, God, throughout this conversation. I knew I used 'He' and thought about it all the way home and you nailed me!

    I actually think if we would all (and by 'we' I mean the generic 'we'...not people on this board) put aside the NEED to be right and just allowed for discussion on the subject there is some FASCINATING things that could be learned. I understand the hesitancy of the pro-bang theory group to allow Intelligent Design to be taught in school...but man...can you think of a more cool class than one that taught the science and physics and offered students the opportunity to design a galxy...plug the info into computer models and see which students models didnt get all tore up. (sort of like the scaled bridge exercises).
    That would be cool. I posted a link earlier to [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth"]Creation Myths[/ame] and my dream class is to hash out some of the implications and physical interpretations of some of these myths. For instance,

    Many creation myths share broadly similar themes. Common motifs include the fractionation of the things of the world from a primordial chaos; the separation of the mother and father gods; land emerging from an infinite and timeless ocean; or creatio ex nihilo (English: creation out of nothing).
    In my mind, these are all equivalent since I think that all creation myths are talking truthfully, although metaphorically, about the same event. The Bible uses land emerging from the water, although it is also creatio ex nihilo.

  4. #114
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I think God is the supreme sentience. God is omniscient, remember.
    Scourge already kind of beat me to the punch, but lets tie this back in to your other statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    If the flying spaghetti monster has the attributes and capabilities to create the universe, then he is indistinguishable from God.
    You are glossing over a huge assumption here, namely that sentience is a required attribute and or capability to create the universe.
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  5. #115
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    What do you mean "He"???

    I actually think if we would all (and by 'we' I mean the generic 'we'...not people on this board) put aside the NEED to be right and just allowed for discussion on the subject there is some FASCINATING things that could be learned. I understand the hesitancy of the pro-bang theory group to allow Intelligent Design to be taught in school...but man...can you think of a more cool class than one that taught the science and physics and offered students the opportunity to design a galxy...plug the info into computer models and see which students models didnt get all tore up. (sort of like the scaled bridge exercises).
    "Pro-bang"? That theory is taught because it, with the Inflation modification, is consistent with observed fact and accepted theory.

    The ID theology is not consistent with known fact nor is it testable, hence it is not a science and should not be taught in a science class as any valid approach to reality.

    There's no "hesitancy", the ID crap doesn't pass the standards of good science.

  6. #116
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How do you know what characteristics it would require if you don't even know what it requires to create the universe?
    I know it requires God to be omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. God needs the ability to form Words. God has to be able to separate himself into two.

    Any talk on such is just arbitrary guessing; just nonsense, literally.
    I will disagree. Thinking through what is required leads to attributes that most Gods in the world, especially monotheistic Gods, share.

    I know of 2 monotheistic Gods:
    1. The Abrahamic God of the Old Testament, New Testament and Quran.
    2. Brahma, the Creator God of the Hindus and the single God of the Vedanta.

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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    This begs the question in your mind is this term "God" you are tossing around involving sentience, or is "God" just a reference to whatever force(s) that set set the universe in motion?
    The use of the word "God" is an anthropomorphism indicative of a directed will as opposed to the natural progression of insensate force.

    The Universe either was, or was not, created by an intelligent entity. That entity is typically referred to as "God".

  8. #118
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    We don't know...that's why we say "God did it"...we don't now, and we don't care enough to devote our lives to finding out. We put it in the "God did it" box and move on.

  9. #119
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    And why are any of those things required in order to create the universe?

    Edit: assuming it was created and hasn't always existed.
    God had to perfectly conceptualize the universe to create it, since the universe came from spirit -> thought -> energy -> matter.

  10. #120
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    Re: Where did the Universe come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    "Pro-bang"? That theory is taught because it, with the Inflation modification, is consistent with observed fact and accepted theory.

    The ID theology is not consistent with known fact nor is it testable, hence it is not a science and should not be taught in a science class as any valid approach to reality.

    There's no "hesitancy", the ID crap doesn't pass the standards of good science.
    I just about totally agree with you until you claimed ID, crap. It isn't science, but this does not mean it is not useful to learn about. I would make sure to include creation myths from the whole world and not just Christian ID (which I know very little about - but some proponents are freaky)

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