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Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

Is the EU a freer, more open society in terms of rights and policies?


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kaya'08

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Is Europe "freer" than America, or just as "free"?

This is an interesting point. I know, through complete factual evidence, that America is one of the largest, most diverse, modern and strong economies on the planet that has ever been, and one of the freest and open societies in our history. The opposition by many EU supporters seems to be the argument that Europe, or at least the EU, could actually be the largest and most diverse economy in the world, with a better economic model, should the EU become a republic or a federal state structure in the future. They also claim EU politics is better, that there market economy is better and more stable, and regardless of how false or true these statements are, can they use the argument that the EU is a "freer", better place to live?
 
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In terms of freedom I don't think it's as free as the US. When it comes to criticizing the government, the US is more free. The US is also more free when it comes to protesting. Depending on the country, there are laws in place that damage free speech by calling dissenting opinions hate speech (like speaking against homosexuals, Islam, etc.) Looking at the EU as a whole, I would say that the US is more free.
 
In terms of freedom I don't think it's as free as the US. When it comes to criticizing the government, the US is more free. The US is also more free when it comes to protesting. Depending on the country, there are laws in place that damage free speech by calling dissenting opinions hate speech (like speaking against homosexuals, Islam, etc.) Looking at the EU as a whole, I would say that the US is more free.

Dont forget the second amendment.
 
Any place where the right to bear arms is so egregiously and consistently violated cannot be called "free", not by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Other.

Our perceptions of "freedom" are different. So radically different that it reflects in our own personal politics as well as our policy.
 
Any place where the right to bear arms is so egregiously and consistently violated cannot be called "free", not by any stretch of the imagination.

but not everywhere thinks thats a right, here in Australia we figured it wasnt a right when someone went on a massacre in Tasmania.

guns are for people that need them, military, police, farmers, not your average joe blow
 
What's ironic is that after Australia banned guns, violent crimes rose. AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN. Criminals can still get guns via the black market, law abiding citizens are denied their rights to defend themselves with a suitable weapon when guns are banned.
 
Just curious. If somebody was to rob your house, and you killed the robber, does it constitute a prison sentence? In the UK, you cant touch a robber. Even if he ties your family up or threatens you.
 
Just curious. If somebody was to rob your house, and you killed the robber, does it constitute a prison sentence? In the UK, you cant touch a robber. Even if he ties your family up or threatens you.

Then what happens to these people? I seriously don't know.
 
In no way. For instance, the EU has a maximum of 48 hours week, so if you want to work more, you're out of luck. Many of them have even lower, France 35 hours. Who are to decide how many hours I want to work? To bear arms is really hard. Your merits doesn't decide your wage, union officals do. And most of your income (50-75%) will be given to the government. Also, there is a lot of uneccesary regulation, for instance when stores can keep open.
 
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but not everywhere thinks thats a right...

Well, they're wrong. I have a right to defend myself, despite what you may think. Any country which denies this right is not free.
 
Just curious. If somebody was to rob your house, and you killed the robber, does it constitute a prison sentence?

No.Most states recognize the right to defend yourself,home and family.

In the UK, you cant touch a robber. Even if he ties your family up or threatens you.

That is seriously ****ed up.
 
What's ironic is that after Australia banned guns, violent crimes rose. AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN. Criminals can still get guns via the black market, law abiding citizens are denied their rights to defend themselves with a suitable weapon when guns are banned.

but america still have almost 4 times australia when it comes to murders per capita Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

and almost 10 times more murders with firearms Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

plus we havn't had a massacre since the gun ban started, no-ones shot up a pub, or a school, so overall i'd say we're safer without 'em
 
Well, they're wrong. I have a right to defend myself, despite what you may think. Any country which denies this right is not free.

and what, you're incapable of defending yourself without a gun?

i feel safer when i wander the city at night because i know that if someones gonna try and mug me, they're going to use a knife, which is much easier to defend against than a gun
 
but america still have almost 4 times australia when it comes to murders per capita Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

and almost 10 times more murders with firearms Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

plus we havn't had a massacre since the gun ban started, no-ones shot up a pub, or a school, so overall i'd say we're safer without 'em

America may have more crimes per capita, but it isn't due to gun legalization as statistics from australia shows. One thing America deals with more is gangs and illegal immigrants who are both more likely to commit violent crime.

And how often does Australia have massacres? It has only been a few years since the last one and since the gun ban. More violent crime has been committed after the gun ban, does it matter if a massacre happens when violent crime overall is on the rise?
 
but america still have almost 4 times australia when it comes to murders per capita Murders (per capita) statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

and almost 10 times more murders with firearms Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

plus we havn't had a massacre since the gun ban started, no-ones shot up a pub, or a school, so overall i'd say we're safer without 'em

But violent crime in Australia is higher than in the US, even before the gun ban.
Britain, Australia top U.S.<br> in violent crime

"The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime. "
 
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Well, they're wrong. I have a right to defend myself, despite what you may think. Any country which denies this right is not free.

That depends on your definition of what free is. If you define being "free" as having the rights to posses a gun, then your definition of being "free" is very narrow. The term free is used to describe a set of circumstances, not just one, or two, but many. A "free" country will not necessarily meet all the circumstances used to define "free", therefore we measure our freedom as the "level of freedom". The gun issue in Europe makes us less free than the US. It doesn't make us devoid of freedom.
 
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and what, you're incapable of defending yourself without a gun?

Is this a serious comment? Why should I make it easier for someone else to kill me?

i feel safer when i wander the city at night because i know that if someones gonna try and mug me, they're going to use a knife, which is much easier to defend against than a gun

How could you possibly know that? Are there no guns in Australia?
 
That depends on your definition of what free is. If you define being "free" as having the rights to posses a gun, then your definition of being "free" is very narrow. The term free is used to describe a set of circumstances, not just one, or two, but many. A "free" country will not necessarily meet all the circumstances used to define "free", therefore we measure our freedom as the "level of freedom". The gun issue in Europe makes us less free than the US. It doesn't make us devoid of freedom.

True freedom cannot exist where the state has a monopoly on violence. How can you insure your other freedoms when you have no recourse to defend them?
 
True freedom cannot exist where the state has a monopoly on violence. How can you insure your other freedoms when you have no recourse to defend them?

from that statement, i'd question how free you are if you live in fear of the government, and your only recourse is violence
 
from that statement, i'd question how free you are if you live in fear of the government...

I don't live in fear of the government. The government lives in fear of me, as it should be.

...and your only recourse is violence

It's not the only recourse, it's the last recourse, one that many Europeans do not have.
 
True freedom cannot exist where the state has a monopoly on violence. How can you insure your other freedoms when you have no recourse to defend them?

Yes, they also have a legal monopoly over there citizens. So if they wish to use there monopoly of "violence" on us, then they will be sure to use there "legal" monopoly to ban guns before they do it.
 
Yes, they also have a legal monopoly over there citizens. So if they wish to use there monopoly of "violence" on us, then they will be sure to use there "legal" monopoly to ban guns before they do it.

Huh? What are you saying mate?
 
Just curious. If somebody was to rob your house, and you killed the robber, does it constitute a prison sentence? In the UK, you cant touch a robber. Even if he ties your family up or threatens you.

As a matter of fact, you can use "reasonable force" against him to repel him.
What you cannot do is pursue him down the street and break a cricket bat over his head giving them brain damage. Or shoot him unless he's about to shoot you.
 
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