View Poll Results: Is the EU a freer, more open society in terms of rights and policies?

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  • Yes

    15 22.39%
  • No

    41 61.19%
  • Other - explain

    11 16.42%
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Thread: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Overall I think Europe is more free on social issues like drinking age, drug use, age of consent, gay rights etc... although, like Lila said, it does depend on the country.

    We do have the same basic freedoms of speech, of the press, religion and assembly. Although, again, depending on the country, there can be some restrictions, especially on the speech issue.

    Labor laws are more restrictive and tend to protect the employee over the employer.

    As for gun laws, yeah, other than in Switzerland and Finland, there's not much freedom to own weapons over here.

    Honestly, when it comes to how "free" one is, there's good and bad on both sides of the Atlantic. There are many things I would love to import from one side to the other to create the perfect free society.
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Europe has more diversity than the US as far as freedom goes, so the question isn't really applicable. Some European nations have more freedom, some have less.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    The United States is a massively sexually repressed nation. It's illegal in almost all of the country for two consenting adults to have sex and exchange money for it. If you're consenting homosexual adults, you're not allowed to marry in most of the country. Many states have unreasonably high age of consent laws. In most of Australia and many European nations it's 16. In the United States we have some states that make consent the ridiculously high age of 17 or even 18. Some states (for example, Nebraska) pass laws forbidding a stripper from touching any of her patrons. I had to get a job across the border in Iowa to continue to please my customers the way I'm capable of. What man wants a lap dance where she's not allowed to sit on his lap? There are some countries that are less sexually free than we are (Iran for example), but most countries in Europe are much, much freer than we are in this regard.

    In the US you can't even legally have a drink until you're 21. The drinking age used to be left up to each state to decide until the Big Brother Federal Government lead by Ronald Religion blackmailed all states into increasing it to 21 by threatening to withhold Federal highway funds.

    Our other government (or perhaps more accurately our real government), the corporations, are much too powerful in the United States. The banks can irresponsibly waste depositor money on risky investments and then get bailed out by taxpayers. Then they have the gall to use some of that money to pay million dollar bonuses to the fat cats who caused the problem.

    It's not just the government that can restrict your freedoms. Corporations can too. You can work for a corporation that forces you to sign under the guise of a non-disclosure agreement and agreement that infringes on your free speech rights, one that applies even after you no longer work for them. Then you have to stomach and keep your mouth shut about any and all immoral behavior that the crooks running the place do. So much for the First Amendment.

  4. #104
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    The United States is a massively sexually repressed nation. It's illegal in almost all of the country for two consenting adults to have sex and exchange money for it.
    Its called marriage.

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  5. #105
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    And you're "very conservative"?
    What, I have to be all worked up about guns in order to be "very conservative?"

  6. #106
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    While the right to bear arms is a big and important one to me, let's not lose sight of the fact that it is just one aspect of freedom among many that are equally important.

    Freedom of speech, press, association, assembly, religion and religious expression, political dissent, etc.
    The right to be free from unreasonable and arbitrary searches and seizures... I personally think we've given too much ground on that issue in the USA over the past couple of decades.
    Private property, private enterprise, self-determination, upward economic mobility regardless of "class".
    Justice, fair trials, reasonable laws...

    Big topic.

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  7. #107
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    The United States is a massively sexually repressed nation. It's illegal in almost all of the country for two consenting adults to have sex and exchange money for it. If you're consenting homosexual adults, you're not allowed to marry in most of the country. Many states have unreasonably high age of consent laws.
    So maybe you'd like 10 year olds to have sex?

    In most of Australia and many European nations it's 16. In the United States we have some states that make consent the ridiculously high age of 17 or even 18. Some states (for example, Nebraska) pass laws forbidding a stripper from touching any of her patrons. I had to get a job across the border in Iowa to continue to please my customers the way I'm capable of. What man wants a lap dance where she's not allowed to sit on his lap? There are some countries that are less sexually free than we are (Iran for example), but most countries in Europe are much, much freer than we are in this regard.
    So lewd behavior control makes us an oppressed nation?


    In the US you can't even legally have a drink until you're 21. The drinking age used to be left up to each state to decide until the Big Brother Federal Government lead by Ronald Religion blackmailed all states into increasing it to 21 by threatening to withhold Federal highway funds.
    So society shouldn't bestow certain privileges based on maturity and responsibility? Should we put 5 year olds in the military?

    Our other government (or perhaps more accurately our real government), the corporations, are much too powerful in the United States. The banks can irresponsibly waste depositor money on risky investments and then get bailed out by taxpayers. Then they have the gall to use some of that money to pay million dollar bonuses to the fat cats who caused the problem.
    And the government has done a better job with your money?

    It's not just the government that can restrict your freedoms. Corporations can too. You can work for a corporation that forces you to sign under the guise of a non-disclosure agreement and agreement that infringes on your free speech rights, one that applies even after you no longer work for them. Then you have to stomach and keep your mouth shut about any and all immoral behavior that the crooks running the place do. So much for the First Amendment.
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So maybe you'd like 10 year olds to have sex?
    Um some of them already are having sex and no no one mentioned 10yr olds and just because its the law doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.
    So lewd behavior control makes us an oppressed nation?
    Lewd behavior? How is there anything lewd about paying for sex. It happens and it should be legal to do so. Also I don't think too many Americans' are moral people. If you did have morals shouldn't one of those morals be to live and let live?

    So society shouldn't bestow certain privileges based on maturity and responsibility? Should we put 5 year olds in the military?
    I think you just don't get it, like most conservatives. It's not about age that makes you mature and responsible its about upbringing.
    [quote
    And the government has done a better job with your money?[/quote]No the government does a bad job with everyone's money.

    It's called voluntary cooperation.
    That's a good euphemism.

  9. #109
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    American, is erecting a straw man the only thing you know how to do?

    So maybe you'd like 10 year olds to have sex?
    Straw man. I talked about freedom of sex between consenting adults. I said nothing about 10 year-olds.

    So lewd behavior control makes us an oppressed nation?
    Sex between consenting adults goes on in privacy. What's lewd to you is a turn-on to someone else and is none of your business. Restricting consensual sex between adults is indeed oppression. Right-wing fascists talk about freedom, but they don't practice it. As long as some kinds of sex between consenting adults is illegal, we are a sexually oppressed nation.

    So society shouldn't bestow certain privileges based on maturity and responsibility? Should we put 5 year olds in the military?
    Straw man again. I didn't say anything about putting 5 year-olds in the military. I was talking about giving 18, 19, and 20 year-olds the right to drink, a freedom they have in Europe. The poll was about whether Europeans are more free than Americans. In this case they are.

    And the government has done a better job with your money?
    Another straw man. My point wasn't about the government. It was about the immoral abuses of banks that have robbed every one of us. The perps ought to have been thrown in jail. Instead, they collected million dollar bonuses at taxpayer expense.

    It's called voluntary cooperation.
    Non-disclosure agreements are not supposed to cover up illegal behavior. That's the way the law is supposed to work, but such agreements end up covering that up anyway because the person who signed rarely has the resources to fight the huge and oppressive corporations.

    Stop erecting straw men. I see your erection of them almost every time I write something.
    Last edited by Luna Tick; 03-02-10 at 12:00 PM.

  10. #110
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Being that we have the highest incarceration rate in the world, I don't see how on balance we could argue we are more free than much of Europe. We simply put greater emphasis on certain civil liberties than to do / and they on others than we do.

    Individual freedom is a very complicated subject. In some ways, you have more individual freedom in China than you do here. For example, you can walk into a store in China, buy a beer, and sit out front and drink it. That would get you arrested for public intoxication here. On the other hand, you can hold church services in your home without risk of it being bulldozed here for being a church that is not registered with the government.

    The United States by and large has more economic freedom than Europe. Europe in many ways has more personal freedom than the United States. Moreover, European governments tend to be far more afraid of their citizenry than the U.S. government is. For example, protests in France can pretty much shut the government down.

    On balance, I think negative rights are more strongly protected in the United States while positive rights are stronger in Europe.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 03-03-10 at 10:44 AM.
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