View Poll Results: Is the EU a freer, more open society in terms of rights and policies?

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  • Yes

    15 22.39%
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    41 61.19%
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    11 16.42%
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Thread: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

  1. #91
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well, they're wrong. I have a right to defend myself, despite what you may think. Any country which denies this right is not free.
    You have the right to defend yourself in Europe also.

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    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    No.Most states recognize the right to defend yourself,home and family.



    That is seriously ****ed up.
    It's also incorrect.

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I don't live in fear of the government. The government lives in fear of me, as it should be.
    And the prize for the most delusional statement of the week goes too.......

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    In the UK? Or US?
    The UK. You cannot use excessive force to protect yourself. One often hears the case of the farmer who shot shot the burglars going to jail. What they leave out is that the burglars were unarmed, and he wasn't.

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    Almost everything you said there is incorrect.
    Really? Doesn't EU have a 48 hours max week? Limiting the maximum working week to 48 hours

    Doesn't France Have the 35 hours per week?
    35-hour workweek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Most countries in Europe do have a limit on how many hours you are allowed to work, normally around 37.5-40. It's only UK where employees can choose to work as many hours as they want. Who are to decide how many hours I want to work? Not only is it a huge breach into our liberties, but it is completly economically unsound.

    50-75% is given to the government. For instance France I would say is the most taxed country in EU. They have a payrol tax of 45%. They have a income tax from 0-48%. They also have GST of 19%. If we add these taxes togheter, an high income person will be taxed 77%. A low income person (less than 7000 dollar per year) would get 55% tax, and I haven't included wealth taxes, petrol taxes, TV-tax, Housing tax, and property taxes, which takes even more of your income. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5202
    Last edited by Camlon; 03-01-10 at 07:44 AM.

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    The only aspect Europe is 'freer' than America is in drugs and alcohol (but only in some European countries not all)

    Everything else? US is superior.

    I highly doubt in US you can be stopped and searched. Arrested and then held for over a month without being given knowledge of why you were arrested and have a President that is appointed. Oh and be refused the right to bear arms.


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    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Really? Doesn't EU have a 48 hours max week? Limiting the maximum working week to 48 hours
    Working time regulations for trainee doctors -- Pounder 339: b4488 -- BMJ
    -snip-
    The present working time regulations can already be applied flexibly. Every employee in the United Kingdom can choose to opt out of the 48 hour week to work up to 78 hours a week; junior doctors can decide to opt out and to return immediately to a 56 hour week, but they are limited by the New Deal—the junior doctors’ employment contract that, by enforcing an absolute 56 hour limit, is even more restrictive than the EWTD.9 In addition, they can also be non-resident on call for up to an average 72 hours a week.

    Doesn't France Have the 35 hours per week?
    35-hour workweek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Yep.

    Most countries in Europe do have a limit on how many hours you are allowed to work, normally around 37.5-40. It's only UK where employees can choose to work as many hours as they want.
    So it went from EU wide, to "Most Countries".


    50-75% is given to the government. For instance France I would say is the most taxed country in EU. They have a payrol tax of 45%. They have a income tax from 0-48%. They also have GST of 19%. If we add these taxes togheter, an high income person will be taxed 77%. A low income person (less than 7000 dollar per year) would get 55% tax, and I haven't included wealth taxes, petrol taxes, TV-tax, Housing tax, and property taxes, which takes even more of your income. Welfare Lessons from France | Michael D. Tanner | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary
    Our top tax bracket is 41%
    Europe ranges from 10% up.
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe]Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Stop reading CATO. That stuff rots your brain.

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    How easy is it to get into a four year college in Europe? In Germany, you have to have gone to the Gymnasium or taken the transfer program from Hochshule to University, right?

    In the US, either a high school diploma or a GED is sufficient so we have a much higher rate of college enrollment. Doesn't that mean the US is more educated?

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    Working time regulations for trainee doctors -- Pounder 339: b4488 -- BMJ
    -snip-
    The present working time regulations can already be applied flexibly. Every employee in the United Kingdom can choose to opt out of the 48 hour week to work up to 78 hours a week; junior doctors can decide to opt out and to return immediately to a 56 hour week, but they are limited by the New Deal—the junior doctors’ employment contract that, by enforcing an absolute 56 hour limit, is even more restrictive than the EWTD.9 In addition, they can also be non-resident on call for up to an average 72 hours a week.
    Is UK, EU? Is Europe free because UK is relatively more free than the rest of Europe. We have some east-bloc countries that quite free as well, does that mean Europe is free? The fact that pretty much every single country in Europe control how many hours you can work, show how little freedom there is in Europe.

    Yep.
    So it went from EU wide, to "Most Countries".
    I just stated that EU has a 48 hours max working week. That is true. I didn't mention that UK was en axception in their law, even though I knew it when I posted it, because you don't mention every single exception.


    Our top tax bracket is 41%
    Europe ranges from 10% up.
    Tax rates of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Stop reading CATO. That stuff rots your brain.
    Well, France has some ways to increase the tax level. "The top French tax rate is currently 40%, but surtaxes could boost the top rate to 51%" http://www.internationalliving.com/C...s/France/Taxes
    Which will give 75%-80% taxes, but French tax system is a mess, but some thing are clear. They have a GST of 19.6% and they have a payroll tax of 45%. Pretty much, French residents are one of the most taxed in Europe and the ones who have least freedom. Also, they have performed really badly the last 10-20 years and their income level is around Spain's, Greece's and Italy's level. https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...=eu&rank=38#fr

    I think you need to understand that there are more taxes than income tax. We have GST, payroll taxes, and income taxes. All of them is tax on income. We also shouldn't forget all of the other taxes, property taxes, TX-tax, petrol tax and so on.

    I don't read cato, I was just looking for some tax data.
    Last edited by Camlon; 03-01-10 at 08:40 AM.

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    Re: Is Europe "freer" that America or just as "free"?

    America has a lot of ****ed up laws, and we should be looking for ways to reduce the number of laws and make more things legal so as to increase our freedom. But no way, no how is Europe more free than America. They are worse off than us, and are basically a reflection of what America will become if we don't get off this god damned big government horse.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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