View Poll Results: I have a "right" to...

Voters
112. You may not vote on this poll
  • Health care

    30 26.79%
  • Food

    35 31.25%
  • Water

    39 34.82%
  • Other people's wealth

    7 6.25%
  • A job

    17 15.18%
  • A minimum or "living" wage

    30 26.79%
  • None of the above

    61 54.46%
  • Other

    26 23.21%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 6 of 35 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 349

Thread: I have a "right" to...

  1. #51
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Of the following, which do you feel is a "right", i.e., a moral claim on something?

    Health care.
    Food.
    Water.
    Other people's wealth.
    A job.
    A minimum or "living" wage.
    None of the above.
    Other.
    None of those things are rights. But I picked other, because something being a right does not mean others have to pay for it out of their own pocket or in some shape or form provide you with a means of exercising that right it just means the government can not stop you from getting those things assuming you have the ability to pay for those things. For example the government does not in any shape or form have to buy me a firearm with tax payer money in order to make sure I am able to properly exercise my 2nd amendment rights even though there is the right to keep and bear arms, if anyone wants a firearm then they have to go and pay for it themselves.A right just means the government can't stop you from doing it and has absolutely no business preventing you from exercising that right unless you are prison/jail.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 02-28-10 at 09:29 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #52
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    A right is a righteous or moral claim on or to something. Obviously, people can disagree about what's "moral" or "righteous", and that's perfectly reasonable, but unless you are a nihilist or fascist I don't think you'd have much reason to argue against the morality of individual liberty.
    "Righteous" and "morality" are entirely subjective concepts, anyone can define whatever they want as "righteous" and "moral", therefore you're back to just demanding that what you want is a "right". Until you can objectively come up with a definition of what a "right" is and how it can be objectively determined, you're still just whistling dixie.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  3. #53
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not in an absolute sense. If this was the case, we would not have the death penalty. Cephus makes sense around the societal part of the rights/morals issue. In the US, we do have a right to life as dictated in the Constitution... with the exception of those marked for death by the death penalty, but it was not always like this, and it is not like this everywhere.
    None of the rights defined in the Constitution are absolute, as you point out. Life... well, we do die certainly and we can put people to death, plus we can kill people on the field of combat. Liberty? Tell that to convicted prisoners. Pursuit of happiness? Good thing it was put in those terms because guaranteeing people that they will *ACHIEVE* happiness is absurd. Many people can't even pursue it in any tangible way. These are all conceptual, not absolute.

    Rights, as objective, demonstrable things are fantasy. They simply do not exist. No one has yet shown how you determine what a "right" is in any objective manner.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  4. #54
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In your dreams...
    Last Seen
    05-29-12 @ 02:53 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,621

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Pardon my hippie mind, why are people saying that they aren't rights?
    Psst... dont tell anyone but its because they're a bunch of reactionists to our secret socialist revolution where we plan to enslave the rich and give all these things out for free.

  5. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    "Righteous" and "morality" are entirely subjective concepts...
    I already addressed this. Did you purposely ignore that part of my post so you could create this strawman?

    ...anyone can define whatever they want as "righteous" and "moral", therefore you're back to just demanding that what you want is a "right". Until you can objectively come up with a definition of what a "right" is and how it can be objectively determined, you're still just whistling dixie.
    Well, duh. Why can't you answer my question? Why must every "debate" on this forum be an attempt to "win" the internetz?

    Do you agree with Jefferson's conception of liberty, and do you think it is a valid moral basis for our society? I'm asking because I want to know, not because I like asking random questions.

  6. #56
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    None of the rights defined in the Constitution are absolute, as you point out. Life... well, we do die certainly and we can put people to death, plus we can kill people on the field of combat. Liberty? Tell that to convicted prisoners. Pursuit of happiness? Good thing it was put in those terms because guaranteeing people that they will *ACHIEVE* happiness is absurd. Many people can't even pursue it in any tangible way. These are all conceptual, not absolute.

    Rights, as objective, demonstrable things are fantasy. They simply do not exist. No one has yet shown how you determine what a "right" is in any objective manner.
    This tired strawman? Again!?

    A right is a moral sentiment. Of course it doesn't physically exist; it's an abstract concept. All morality and philosophy is. That doesn't mean morality and philosophy are worthless...

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    "Righteous" and "morality" are entirely subjective concepts, anyone can define whatever they want as "righteous" and "moral", therefore you're back to just demanding that what you want is a "right". Until you can objectively come up with a definition of what a "right" is and how it can be objectively determined, you're still just whistling dixie.
    I could prove with purely objective evidence that I have various rights.

    For example, I could prove that I have a right in the care, control and custody of my children. I could provide various personal court documents, statutes, and many specific examples where I have exorcised this right.

    Also, I can demonstrate various rights as a tenant. I could provide the rental agreement, more statutes on tenant rights, and specific occasions where I have exorcised that authority.

    If a right is a collection of qualities that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval, then once those qualities are clearly defined, we could look at a given person and observe rather or not they fit the criteria and posses that right. Take gay marriage, for example. Gays don't currently have the right to marry because they don't meet the criteria. The solution: Change the criteria. In this way it is demonstrated that rights exist.

    If, however, a right is something someone can do even though sometimes they shouldn't, then anything one can do is therefore a right.

  8. #58
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,707

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Psst... dont tell anyone but its because they're a bunch of reactionists to our secret socialist revolution where we plan to enslave the rich and give all these things out for free.
    Ummm...just how many billions are spent each year already on those 'free' government handout programs because people have the 'right' to food...healthcare...housing...

    Its not a question of enslaving...but unless you are simply refusing to see the truth, Obama...democrats...politicians...even Biden (hes not REALLY a player) have all said they want to give away MORE and they absolutely believe the wealthy should pay for it.

    ANd they HAVE to give away more of other peoples money. How else do you continue to create more crippled and dependent little pets to keep dems in power?

  9. #59
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,707

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I could prove with purely objective evidence that I have various rights.

    For example, I could prove that I have a right in the care, control and custody of my children. I could provide various personal court documents, statutes, and many specific examples where I have exorcised this right.

    Also, I can demonstrate various rights as a tenant. I could provide the rental agreement, more statutes on tenant rights, and specific occasions where I have exorcised that authority.

    If a right is a collection of qualities that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval, then once those qualities are clearly defined, we could look at a given person and observe rather or not they fit the criteria and posses that right. Take gay marriage, for example. Gays don't currently have the right to marry because they don't meet the criteria. The solution: Change the criteria. In this way it is demonstrated that rights exist.

    If, however, a right is something someone can do even though sometimes they shouldn't, then anything one can do is therefore a right.
    All PEOPLE have the right to marry. In MOST states, men dont have the right to legally marry men...brothers dont have the right to legally marry sisters. people dont have the right to legally marry animals...no matter how much they love each other.

    IT comes down to the rule of law. People create the rules that govern their society. As long as they live in that society they follow those rules and enjoy those 'rights' and freedoms...right up until someone attempts to take the 'right' from them.

    People have the 'right' to live. Every year a few hundred thousand Americans have that right violated. But...how can that BE if it is a 'right?'

    Maybe we better do a more effective job of defining the word 'right'

  10. #60
    
    TheGirlNextDoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    09-24-14 @ 02:31 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,033
    Blog Entries
    21

    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Of the following, which do you feel is a "right", i.e., a moral claim on something?

    Health care.
    Food.
    Water.
    Other people's wealth.
    A job.
    A minimum or "living" wage.
    None of the above.
    Other.


    None of the above.
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

Page 6 of 35 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •