View Poll Results: I have a "right" to...

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  • Health care

    30 26.79%
  • Food

    35 31.25%
  • Water

    39 34.82%
  • Other people's wealth

    7 6.25%
  • A job

    17 15.18%
  • A minimum or "living" wage

    30 26.79%
  • None of the above

    61 54.46%
  • Other

    26 23.21%
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Thread: I have a "right" to...

  1. #301
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Your displeasure must have a basis.
    Yes, it's something I don't like. You're desperately trying to get me to say I have a right to things and you're not going to do it. I've already explicitly said that my displeasure has absolutely nothing to do with rights, I might not like the fact that my favorite restaurant ran out of prime rib, I don't think for a second that I had a right to have prime rib.

    So stop trying to steer the debate and just deal with the reality of it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    You are not providing examples, just empty assertions. You have not demonstrated that political and legal freedoms as you envision them even exist in any non-nominal sense.



    The term 'ensure' does not necessarily imply 100% effectiveness, only a relative and unfixed amount of certainty. It was clear from the context of my post that I did not mean it as such.



    People who are protecting their homes and families from bandits because the government can't provide the necessary security detail aren't acting on their own behalf?
    this has no relevancy but you have 911 posts XD
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

  3. #303
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Okay, that's one, "personal freedom", albeit a rather vague one. What are the other universal truths that have been recognised in all times?
    An inate yearning or desire for freedom is vague? Not to me.

    You'll find a pretty good list of universal truths in Proverbs in the Old Testament. Such as dishonest scales displease the Lord and the borrower is servant to the lender.

    From the Founders:
    "No nation was ever ruined by trade, even seemingly the most disadvantageous."

    "Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread."

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it."

    "To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."

    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others."

    "To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

    From Shakespeare: (I had to do a 9th grade term paper on the universal truths contained in "Julius Caesar")

    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves"

    "There is a tide in the affairs of men Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune"

    "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones"
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #304
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Yes, it's something I don't like. You're desperately trying to get me to say I have a right to things and you're not going to do it.
    Only because you don't want to have to admit I'm right.
    If you didn't know where I was going with the questions, you would have admitted it already.

  5. #305
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    I cant believe this thread is still cooking...

    People have a right to...respond to all the good or bad crap that comes their way in either a healthy or unhealthy manner.

    Thats pretty much it.

    We have a pretty entitled (and unrealistic) sense of the meaning of the word 'rights'.

  6. #306
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    You are not providing examples
    This is absolutely false. I provided two, and I could provide 100 more.

    Having a right and having the means to exercise that right are seperate concepts, the former having no necessary relationship to the latter.

    The term 'ensure' does not necessarily imply 100% effectiveness
    No, it necessitates 100% effectiveness.

    People who are protecting their homes and families from bandits because the government can't provide the necessary security detail aren't acting on their own behalf?
    That's not what possies do - they are raised by law enforcement to act wirh them in order to achieve a specific goal, and then disbanded - and so, your example doesnt support your claim.

  7. #307
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    An inate yearning or desire for freedom is vague? Not to me.

    You'll find a pretty good list of universal truths in Proverbs in the Old Testament. Such as dishonest scales displease the Lord and the borrower is servant to the lender.

    From the Founders:
    "No nation was ever ruined by trade, even seemingly the most disadvantageous."

    "Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread."

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it."

    "To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."

    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others."

    "To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

    From Shakespeare: (I had to do a 9th grade term paper on the universal truths contained in "Julius Caesar")

    "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves"

    "There is a tide in the affairs of men Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune"

    "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones"
    Well, it's certainly an extensive and considered list, and I thank you for taking the trouble to compile it. Genuinely. However, I think that several of your inclusions could be challenged for their truthfulness, perhaps not disproved, as I think such things are matters of opinion.

    For example, the astrology lobby might challenge Shakespeare on the stars.
    Or,"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others." Were that accepted as a universal truth, three quarters of all legislation would never have been drafted.

    I would certainly take issue with,"To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." As would every member of the pacifist movement.

    One further point, quoting from only as far back as the 16th century rather does beg the question as to whether these things might have been held true throughout all human history.

    I understand your general point, although I still think I disagree with it, but were it the case that there do indeed exist eternal and universal truths, I think they would be more general such as "killing another without reason is bad", but again, there may be those, however far from civilised society, who would challenge their universality.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  8. #308
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Only because you don't want to have to admit I'm right.
    If you didn't know where I was going with the questions, you would have admitted it already.
    Because you're not and I've told you time and time again that you're not. An honest person would acknowledge that they were wrong. When do you plan on starting?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #309
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because you're not and I've told you time and time again that you're not. An honest person would acknowledge that they were wrong. When do you plan on starting?
    When I am.
    But, that's not now.

  10. #310
    Advisor Iwa's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I cant believe this thread is still cooking...

    People have a right to...respond to all the good or bad crap that comes their way in either a healthy or unhealthy manner.

    Thats pretty much it.

    We have a pretty entitled (and unrealistic) sense of the meaning of the word 'rights'.
    Everyone has rights. Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to excersise them though.
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

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