View Poll Results: I have a "right" to...

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  • Health care

    30 26.79%
  • Food

    35 31.25%
  • Water

    39 34.82%
  • Other people's wealth

    7 6.25%
  • A job

    17 15.18%
  • A minimum or "living" wage

    30 26.79%
  • None of the above

    61 54.46%
  • Other

    26 23.21%
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Thread: I have a "right" to...

  1. #291
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    AlbqOwl's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    But it's what he wanted you to be saying.

    I also would like to say that it was a good post.

    However, are their any values/ideas which have been present in much if not all of history?

    I personally couldn't say, so I'm asking.
    I took his 'made up words' phrase as a perjorative and actually negating what I was saying.

    A valid concept is a valid concept no matter what era it comes from or who proposes it. A good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from.

    To discount valid concepts and good ideas from people in other eras and times just because they practiced some things that we now believe to be wrong is just as prejudiced and...well...stupid....as discounting everything somebody says now just because they don't get everything right.

    That's why we don't read our 21st century morality into our moral judgment of people of another time. To do so can even make us hypocrites because who among us can say with certainty that we wouldn't be the same as they were if we lived in their time?

    But yes, I believe there are universal truths that have been recognized in all times. They don't change just because the people change culturally or morally.

    That there is a yearning within all people for personal freedom I believe is a universal truth.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #292
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    Gibberish's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    None of the above.

    I'll address two I could see arguments for.

    Water is free, like dirt. Clean water is a paid service and not a "right".

    A minimum or "living" wage is decided on by citizens in an attempt to boost employment and thus the economy. There is no "right" to be given a job or "right" to be paid a subjective X amount for that job.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

  3. #293
    Advisor Iwa's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    None of the above.

    I'll address two I could see arguments for.

    Water is free, like dirt. Clean water is a paid service and not a "right".

    A minimum or "living" wage is decided on by citizens in an attempt to boost employment and thus the economy. There is no "right" to be given a job or "right" to be paid a subjective X amount for that job.

    money?????WHERED IT GO? oh yeah thats right my tax dollars are paying a few peoples cell phone bills.
    It's not rape if you scream "SURPRISE" first.

  4. #294
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well thanks for the compliment, but if that is what you interpreted my post to say, that's too bad. Because that isn't what I was saying.
    It may not be what you meant to have said, but that was the meaning of what you said.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #295
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I don't know E.T., but I have long strongly argued that communism, though a noble idea, cannot work among humankind and will not accomplish unfettered exercise of unalienable rights nor self governance as he probably envisions that it would accomplish.
    Of course not -- it runs contrary to human nature.

    I believe that the closest to such an envisioned 'utopia' that humankind will ever accomplish is embodied in our own U.S. Constitution as it was originally intended plus the amendments necessary to correct the prejudicial inequities as we evolved to understand them to be.
    Utopia is where everyone lives and acts within his rights.
    Once we get there, government is no longer necessary.

  6. #296
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I already listed them. Displeasure. I don't think it can be argued narrower than that.
    Your displeasure must have a basis.

  7. #297
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't.
    I highly doubt it.

  8. #298
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post

    But yes, I believe there are universal truths that have been recognized in all times. They don't change just because the people change culturally or morally.

    That there is a yearning within all people for personal freedom I believe is a universal truth.
    Okay, that's one, "personal freedom", albeit a rather vague one. What are the other universal truths that have been recognised in all times?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  9. #299
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I cannot do virtually impossible things.
    the fact that they are 'virtually' impossible things means that they are possible. You're again deliberately confusing the term 'ability' and using it in an inapplicable manner.

    Regardless of the case, you can't possess any kind of freedom (politcal, legal, or otherwise) if something is virtually impossible. Freedom must include possibility to do so.
    See above.
    As such, my examples stand as concrete examples of how your position fails.

    That you may not have a church to go to in no way means you do not posess the -legal and political- ability to practice your religion; the means are up to you to provide.

    I thought we were discussing the nature of rights, as described in the U.S. Constitution.
    Only the right to bear arms can not be infringed. The capacity for habeas corpus in the U.S. Constitution implies rights (as described in the U.S. Constitution) can be infringed under certain conditions.
    Still wondering how/why this is relevant.

    Perfection is incidental to the point.
    "Perfection" was necessary to your point, as 'ensure' denotes a rate of 100%.

    If it was absolutely unsupportable, then it would be inconceivable that the U.S. government would ever distribute weapons among a civilian population; the existence of posses in the Old West....
    This is an exampleof the government equipping people who are acting on the behalf of the government. Apples and tuna.

  10. #300
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    See above.
    As such, my examples stand as concrete examples of how your position fails.

    That you may not have a church to go to in no way means you do not posess the -legal and political- ability to practice your religion; the means are up to you to provide.
    You are not providing examples, just empty assertions. You have not demonstrated that political and legal freedoms as you envision them even exist in any non-nominal sense.

    "Perfection" was necessary to your point, as 'ensure' denotes a rate of 100%.
    The term 'ensure' does not necessarily imply 100% effectiveness, only a relative and unfixed amount of certainty. It was clear from the context of my post that I did not mean it as such.

    This is an exampleof the government equipping people who are acting on the behalf of the government. Apples and tuna.
    People who are protecting their homes and families from bandits because the government can't provide the necessary security detail aren't acting on their own behalf?
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-08-10 at 06:29 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

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