View Poll Results: I have a "right" to...

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  • Health care

    30 26.79%
  • Food

    35 31.25%
  • Water

    39 34.82%
  • Other people's wealth

    7 6.25%
  • A job

    17 15.18%
  • A minimum or "living" wage

    30 26.79%
  • None of the above

    61 54.46%
  • Other

    26 23.21%
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Thread: I have a "right" to...

  1. #141
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hint: Governments do not have rights. Government is a group and group rights do not exist. What government is given is authority to exercise power.

    That's it.

    The Constituiton places specific permissions and restrictions on how government can use power.

    What all governments attempt to do is to expand it's available power to as far as the people government will allow. National Socialist Germany, the Soviet Union, Red China, Cuba, North Korea, Iraq under Hussein, other places, all succeeded in getting government with no limits on power. What Obama and the Left seek in America is government with no limits on power. In the US this conflict is fought on one front as expansions of non-existent rights that expand government power at the expense of real rights.

    To put the blunt point on the matter, when a flaming libtard says "health care is a right", the FL is NOT saying "gee, people should not be legally denied a doctor's care by government edict". No, they're not saying that.

    When the flaming libtard says "healthcare is a right", the little animal means that "you, the taxpayer, are a greedy cheap selfish son of a bitch who has to pay a boatload more in taxes to make sure total strangers get medical care that doesn't cost them a dime."

    Whenever they say that this isn't what they mean, they're lying. The heart of socialist propaganda is the Lie.

    Well, health care isn't a right, no matter how often the Useful Idiots proclaim that it is. When their paradise of socialised medicine is imposed on the US, the first thing that will happen will be the establisment of budgets that lead to rationing of this "right".

    When the Second Amendment says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, it means the government isn't allowed to pass laws restricting a man's freedom to own and carry a gun.

    Thus, if the flaming libtards are saying that "health care is a right" but don't actually mean that you, the greedy cheapskate stingy selfish taxpayer will be gouged to provide free services for someone else, then their onus is to provide examples of how the government is actively moving to legally restrict health care access to Americans.

    No one disagrees that people who can pay their doctor should be denied access to health care, hence that aspect of "health care" as a right is moot. The discussion of health care or food or water or air or housing or heating as "rights" to be denied by legislative fiat is not on the table. What is implied by calling those "rights" is the presumption that someone else will pay for them.

    So, should anyone be required for someone else's health care/food/water/air/housing/clothing/transportation/recreation?
    If you were to be picked up and placed in the middle of a desert if you dont WORK for it, eventually you would die because in spite of your fantasy 'right' to food, water, and shelter, UNLESS you worked for it, you wouldnt HAVE it.

    I know...silly example...yet this is a lot of peoples reality DAILY. Someone forgot to tell them to chill and relax...it's all gwanna be alright...because they have the RIGHT to food water and shelter...

  2. #142
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Sure it thinks, in abstractions relating directly to the context of its life. But where you have the idea that an animal has some sort of conception of a 'right' to things as we do in a social sense, I don't know, I have to disagree.
    An alpha wolf's right to first quarter, a male lion's right to kill the young of it's predecessor....the animal kingdom is teeming with examples. It's quite obvious.

  3. #143
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    I see. Something to think about, then. Thanks.

  4. #144
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is entirely what I've been arguing all along. Society, ie. we the people, make up these "rights" and we enforce them inside of our social group. Those rights do not exist outside of our group, at least not unless other groups have similarly adopted them. Rights are subjective, they have zero objective meaning.
    Since a right is a rule governing social interaction, I don't see how they could exist outside of social interactions.

    If you're all by yourself on an island then the concept of rights is quite meaningless. You would have to have something, anything, to interact with for rights to enter the picture; even if all you had to interact with were animals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That doesn't necessarily mean that it does when taking instinct-instructed actions. Certainly, I don't think animals sit around and reason their way through their daily lives. They do what evolution has programmed them to do most of the time. There's no conscious decision to eat or drink or breed, etc. They just do it because that's what their instincts tell them to do.
    Right, because humans would never simply breed to the point of over population or constantly engage in tribal warfare with other groups across the globe in order to fulfill basic needs (oil), yes we're soooo much more advanced.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-02-10 at 12:31 PM.

  5. #145
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, because humans would never simply breed to the point of over population or constantly engage in tribal warfare with other groups across the globe in order to fulfill basic needs (oil), yes we're soooo much more advanced.
    Hey, we're just animals too, just as programmed by our genetics as they are. We have the ability to over-ride that programming, that doesn't mean we always do.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #146
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Wait, the natural rights analogous to those between animals are not conceptually the same as the natural rights we traditionally ascribe to in our social contracts...

    The rights between animals are a function of anarchy but if Im not mistaken we are arguing the basis for rights is social or a mitigation of such anarchy.

  7. #147
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    If you are arguing, Jerry for a state of anarchy between societies I would have to agree with you.

  8. #148
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Wait, the natural rights analogous to those between animals are not conceptually the same as the natural rights we traditionally ascribe to in our social contracts...

    The rights between animals are a function of anarchy but if Im not mistaken we are arguing the basis for rights is social or a mitigation of such anarchy.
    I don't think that rights between animals have any meaning. "Animal rights" only exist within human societies, they don't mean squat on the savannah.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't think that rights between animals have any meaning. "Animal rights" only exist within human societies, they don't mean squat on the savannah.
    I'm not talking about "animal rights" lol. Maybe your joking? Take Jerry's examples posted above.

    for example: A territorial animal gains a 'right' to a particular territory or an animal in conflict for a mate wins the 'right' to the prize.

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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    If you are arguing, Jerry for a state of anarchy between societies I would have to agree with you.
    My understating of global history would agree that there is a state of anarchy between societies. In the absence of a social order I don't see what else there could be. Formal order may come out of that chaos but imo that just proves that chaos will always be there until such formal order is established. That is to say, humans need order to coexist. We are not (or at least, not yet) a species who can peacefully coexist without a ruling authority over us.

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