View Poll Results: I have a "right" to...

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    39 34.82%
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Thread: I have a "right" to...

  1. #131
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It doesn't matter if I agree with it, it was Jefferson's opinion and he was certainly entitled to it. That doesn't make it objectively true and therefore, irrelevant to the argument.


    Just answer the question!!!

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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Except it's clear that among animals, especially prey species, they don't have a "right to life" no matter what their biological imperative says. So long as some of them live long enough to breed and there are more surviving than dying, the species goes on. Rights don't enter into it.
    The notion of a right is what makes an animal think it has any business protecting its young.

    Coin the turn of phrase "what gives you the right to..." A right is the authority to do a thing, a right is not a tangible thing you could hold in your hand.

    So a 'right to life' would be authorization to live.

    The 'right to choose' would be the authority to deny permission to live.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-01-10 at 08:38 PM.

  3. #133
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The notion of a right is what makes an animal think it has any business protecting its young.

    Coin the turn of phrase "what gives you the right to..." A right is the authority to do a thing, a right is not a tangible thing you could hold in your hand.

    So a 'right to life' would be authorization to live.

    The 'right to choose' would be the authority to deny permission to live.
    Authorization from who? You'd have to demonstrate that there is actually some authority which grants a right to live. Get to work.

    Besides, animals, non-human animals in any case, don't have to "think it has any business protecting its young", it has instincts and evolution to thank for it's actions. Somehow, I just can't picture the Thompson's Gazelle arguing with the cheetah that it has a "right to life".
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #134
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Christians have no business comparing humans to animals, since they believe humans are above animals. The kingdom of animals is here to serve us, no more, no less. Since humans are above animals, we deserve more rights than them.

  5. #135
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Christians have no business comparing humans to animals, since they believe humans are above animals. The kingdom of animals is here to serve us, no more, no less. Since humans are above animals, we deserve more rights than them.
    That only demonstrates that the religious (not limited to Christians) are delusional. When you manage to actually demonstrate that your imaginary friend in the sky is real, we'll talk. Until then, it's just an unsupported assertion, no more credible than claiming that the flying spaghetti monster gives us rights.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Authorization from who?
    We the people, by our mutual consent, agree to afford each-other such authorities and permissions equally.

    The right to live may very well not exist outside of our agreement, but among ourselves, in accordance with your agreement, we each give ourselves and everyone else the right to live, and they of us.

    As to an animal, a pack may agree that the leader has the right to first quarter of any kill, so we can see that animals don't need to draft a constitution for various authorities to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You'd have to demonstrate that there is actually some authority which grants a right to live. Get to work.
    I just wrote this from the hip, tell me what you think...

    U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Besides, animals, non-human animals in any case, don't have to "think it has any business protecting its young", it has instincts and evolution to thank for it's actions. Somehow, I just can't picture the Thompson's Gazelle arguing with the cheetah that it has a "right to life".
    If it has synapses firing in it's head, it can "think".
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-02-10 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #137
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No.

    Other countries deny the expression of that right, they can't deny the right itself.

    That's called a human rights violation.
    Human rights violation as defined by the UN charter...

  8. #138
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Christians have no business comparing humans to animals, since they believe humans are above animals. The kingdom of animals is here to serve us, no more, no less. Since humans are above animals, we deserve more rights than them.
    That's a perfect example of what happens when you don't have authority to force what you want; notice how Christians don't comply with your will

  9. #139
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Sure it thinks, in abstractions relating directly to the context of its life. But where you have the idea that an animal has some sort of conception of a 'right' to things as we do in a social sense, I don't know, I have to disagree.

  10. #140
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    Re: I have a "right" to...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We the people, by our mutual consent, agree to afford each-other such authorities and permissions equally.

    The right to live may very well not exist outside of our agreement, but among ourselves, in accordance with your agreement, we each give ourselves and everyone else the right to live, and they of us.
    Which is entirely what I've been arguing all along. Society, ie. we the people, make up these "rights" and we enforce them inside of our social group. Those rights do not exist outside of our group, at least not unless other groups have similarly adopted them. Rights are subjective, they have zero objective meaning.

    I just wrote this from the hip, tell me what you think...

    U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute
    I'd have to read that later, just don't have the time to spend concentrating on it at the moment. I'll take a look though.

    If it has synapses firing in it's head, it can "think".
    That doesn't necessarily mean that it does when taking instinct-instructed actions. Certainly, I don't think animals sit around and reason their way through their daily lives. They do what evolution has programmed them to do most of the time. There's no conscious decision to eat or drink or breed, etc. They just do it because that's what their instincts tell them to do.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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