View Poll Results: Is a "party list" election "democracy" really a democracy?

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  • Yes

    6 42.86%
  • No

    0 0%
  • No, we need to change the system

    7 50.00%
  • Other option... (explain)

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Thread: Is it a democracy when....

  1. #1
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    Is it a democracy when....

    Is it a democracy in a state/country when there is a blocking minority 4% of vote necessary to gain a seat, even if a seat only requires 0.5%.

    Is a "party-list" system fair, could it be branded as a democracy, even when it blocks small parties or independent politicians from having any change of being elected(which is one of the main points of democracy)?
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    I'd like to see a change to the system.


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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    It's a democracy, just a really crappy one. In truth, pretty much all democracies can expect to have this problem. Its part of being a democracy. On the bright side, its a hell of a lot better then the stuff that socialists and communists have to deal with.
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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    How is it not a democracy? It is still the rule of the majority, right?
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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    How is it not a democracy? It is still the rule of the majority, right?
    It blocks single individuals from entering politics without being a member of a 4+% party.. This is not democratic since being a member of a party generally need you to agree with party policies.
    For example, you have no chance of being elected to the European Parliament, unless a big national party endorse you, and you and the party block your national party in the European parliament is in, get a bigger amount of vote than the blocking minimum.

    In many systems you have no chance of having a political say unless you get on a party list, which is not easy in the beginning, because you have to compete with all the people in the party. Doesnt give you much of a chance unless the party really likes you.

    It basically blocks out independent politicians from participating, and it blocks out small parties from taking part of government.
    In Europe this can be seen by bigger and bigger parties forming, and smaller once disappearing alltogether, while it in the US can be seen in the form that there are only two parties with no other parties having any chance.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    The party or coalition that is elected or formed has to have the majority vote. Regardless of how unfair the threshold is for independents it is still a Democratic system, as Democracy is rule by the majority.

    If you can piece together an argument where the ruling party is not elected by the majority of the weighted votes (votes that actually count, like the EC in US), then you can claim it is not a democracy. Otherwise, tough luck.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    Well the goal is never pure democracy, in fact such a system is quite dangerous. What one would want is the establishment of a republic. Still the question then goes towards participation of various parties in the political structure. And there, even if one wishes for Republic, there is a lot of work to do. When you have entrenched 2 party system, you're really left with one party. The "two" parties will just teeter-totter back and forth and will only then support the status-quo. Which is the problem America has currently. You do need some amount of participation of third parties so that should one of the two parties stagnate too much or abandon their political philosophy, you can have another party there to take its place. In a winner take all environment, like that set up for the US, you're going to be stable at 2 main parties. However, that doesn't mean there can't or shouldn't be others.
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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    The party or coalition that is elected or formed has to have the majority vote. Regardless of how unfair the threshold is for independents it is still a Democratic system, as Democracy is rule by the majority.

    If you can piece together an argument where the ruling party is not elected by the majority of the weighted votes (votes that actually count, like the EC in US), then you can claim it is not a democracy. Otherwise, tough luck.
    In Norway in the 90s the leading party had around 7% of the votes... They were supported by an alliance..

    No one wanted them or the prime minister to be in charge.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    In Norway in the 90s the leading party had around 7% of the votes... They were supported by an alliance..

    No one wanted them or the prime minister to be in charge.
    How many votes did the members of this alliance receive?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  10. #10
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    Re: Is it a democracy when....

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    How many votes did the members of this alliance receive?
    They did have majority.

    But anyways this is irrelevant to the point of the thread, which is asking about the blocking of small parties and individual politicians from taking place in parliament, and if that can really be called democracy. The issue of failed party politics is another thread alltogether.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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