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What Does Homework Do?

What does homework do?

  • Total voters
    39
earthworm said:
In my head, I figured this one.
12X = 8 * 21
But I never took calculus in high school and wish I had..
Its a confidence thing, I never had the necessary ton of confidence..
And confidence can be a fleeting, etheral thing.
As a cop out, I think the way calc was explained , the reason for it, was not so good.
Much like the Dems trying to explain health care reform to our people.
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calculus isnt needed to be explained right if its not needed to be explained at all. and i like free healthcare so im all for trying to change a few things, just not they way they are.
 
Iwa said:
calculus is a bunch of bs. no one uses that unless their a mathematician.
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Not true at all. In school few know what they are going to end up as, and many switch professions.
Too little education is not good.
And everyone uses English, either good or poor English..
 
Ikari said:
People are more than free to avoid coursework, but then they should forgo the receipt they get at the end of college which says that you've satisfied all the requirements of the degree.
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History is not required for a degree in physics. It may be arbitrarily added to the "requirements", but the point is that this addition is arbitrary and degrades the idea of requirements to include unrequired courses.

The reason they make certain courses required is merely to increase costs under the guise of giving a more rounded education.

Like I said, I learned more on my own about history than anything I ever learned in a college history course.
 
Iwa said:
since when did english come in on this? lawls
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High school seniors should be have to demonstrate proficiency in English before graduating.
 
Tucker Case said:
History is not required for a degree in physics. It may be arbitrarily added to the "requirements", but the point is that this addition is arbitrary and degrades the idea of requirements to include unrequired courses.

The reason they make certain courses required is merely to increase costs under the guise of giving a more rounded education.

Like I said, I learned more on my own about history than anything I ever learned in a college history course.
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I had to take some history as an undergrad. Will I use history? Not in my professional life most likely. But it's good to know and I can use it in my daily life.

I believe that we need to start understanding the distinctions between higher education institutions.

University: The most academically rigorous and well rounded of all the higher education institutions. You should be expected to take classes on a wide variety of subjects, even those outside your major(s)

College: Less academically rigorous than University. Still a 4 year institution, with more focus on courses from the major and less emphasis/requirement on taking courses outside the major.

Jr. College: ~2 year institution with narrow focus. Classes outside the major (and outside supporting classes for the major) wouldn't be required

Tech School: Very specialized and focuses on learning a trade. Only education requirements would focus on learning necessary material for the trade itself.
 
Iwa said:
calculus isnt needed to be explained right if its not needed to be explained at all. and i like free healthcare so im all for trying to change a few things, just not they way they are.
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Obviously, English and communication skills are poorly taught. In high school, Calculus was a new concept(to me) and it was not well presented - this a another important skill, IMO, using psychology..
My school was excellent, but I was rather dense at times...easy to say now, but not then..:spin:
 
Ikari said:
I had to take some history as an undergrad. Will I use history? Not in my professional life most likely. But it's good to know and I can use it in my daily life.

I believe that we need to start understanding the distinctions between higher education institutions.

University: The most academically rigorous and well rounded of all the higher education institutions. You should be expected to take classes on a wide variety of subjects, even those outside your major(s)

College: Less academically rigorous than University. Still a 4 year institution, with more focus on courses from the major and less emphasis/requirement on taking courses outside the major.

Jr. College: ~2 year institution with narrow focus. Classes outside the major (and outside supporting classes for the major) wouldn't be required

Tech School: Very specialized and focuses on learning a trade. Only education requirements would focus on learning necessary material for the trade itself.
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Then let me change my previous post to suit:

History is not required for a degree in physics. It may be arbitrarily added to the "requirements", but the point is that this addition is arbitrary and degrades the idea of requirements to include unrequired courses.

The reason they make certain courses required is merely to increase costs under the guise of giving a more rounded education.

Like I said, I learned more on my own about history than anything I ever learned in a University history course.
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Still the same truth. I was able to learn more about most subjects outside of University.

In fact, many of the courses I've had to take were pointless as I had already learned the material on my own previously outside of a school setting.

For example, right now, in grad school, I have to take a stats course. It's "required" for my degree.

But it's bull****. I tutored stats in my undergrad and I'm tutoring this course now. I didn't buy the book and I only show up for class so that I can be marked "present" due to a program-wide attendance policy, but I spend that time reading a book in the back of the room. Perfect score on the midterm last week.

Why do I have to take this course?

Because it's required.

Yeah, required so they can suck another G out of me for tuition.
 
It is entirely possible to learn quite a bit without taking a course. But at the same accord, you are typically allowed opportunity to test out of a course and if you succeed you get credit for the course without having taken it. Otherwise, the University will need some documentation that you've met the requirements and that will come either by testing out or by taking the class. You can learn all you want outside of University, but you shouldn't expect a University degree for having done so.

I did this myself. I added Chemistry as a second major (I had 2 majors and 3 minors...that's all the space they had on the form) later in my college career. Instead of taking the first year chemistry course, which I knew well from my 2 years of chemistry in high school, I tested out of the first year. I got credit for the class and was able to jump into the higher chemistry courses. I wasn't charged for testing out, there were forms, the University accepted it readily.

Also, to avoid paying money in grad school, major in Physics, Chemistry, or Math (this may be true for biology too, but I don't know off hand). You get paid to go to grad school then.
 
Ikari said:
It is entirely possible to learn quite a bit without taking a course. But at the same accord, you are typically allowed opportunity to test out of a course and if you succeed you get credit for the course without having taken it. Otherwise, the University will need some documentation that you've met the requirements and that will come either by testing out or by taking the class. You can learn all you want outside of University, but you shouldn't expect a University degree for having done so.

I did this myself. I added Chemistry as a second major (I had 2 majors and 3 minors...that's all the space they had on the form) later in my college career. Instead of taking the first year chemistry course, which I knew well from my 2 years of chemistry in high school, I tested out of the first year. I got credit for the class and was able to jump into the higher chemistry courses. I wasn't charged for testing out, there were forms, the University accepted it readily.

Also, to avoid paying money in grad school, major in Physics, Chemistry, or Math (this may be true for biology too, but I don't know off hand). You get paid to go to grad school then.
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It depends on the program. Some don't let you test out. And trying to use previous coursework won''t work in some cases because they'll say that the course isn't identical because "this one is 'specifically tailored' to this degree".

Big whoop. It's still the same math, but they make us write a paper about norming psychological tests. That means it's a different stats course than the other one's I've taken, apparently.
 
Tucker Case said:
It depends on the program. Some don't let you test out. And trying to use previous coursework won''t work in some cases because they'll say that the course isn't identical because "this one is 'specifically tailored' to this degree".

Big whoop. It's still the same math, but they make us write a paper about norming psychological tests. That means it's a different stats course than the other one's I've taken, apparently.
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There is some of that for sure. But overall I think there are paths open to get around it. In my example, my two years of high school chemistry didn't count towards any credit. But I was allowed to basically take the final exams of both semesters of 1st year chemistry. Which I aced no problem. And that was taken as credit for the course. I don't know your specific circumstance, so I don't know if your University would allow it. I think it's somewhat common though.

In the end, though, the point is the same. The University will need on some level documentation that you've satisfied the requirements. While you can learn it on your own outside of the University, you cannot expect a University degree because of it. It is possible they will refuse to let you test out, and it's possible that this is because they are trying to extract more money. But there's also a practical issue which goes along side of this.
 
Ikari said:
There is some of that for sure. But overall I think there are paths open to get around it. In my example, my two years of high school chemistry didn't count towards any credit. But I was allowed to basically take the final exams of both semesters of 1st year chemistry. Which I aced no problem. And that was taken as credit for the course. I don't know your specific circumstance, so I don't know if your University would allow it. I think it's somewhat common though.
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I told you what I was told on it.

In the end, though, the point is the same. The University will need on some level documentation that you've satisfied the requirements. While you can learn it on your own outside of the University, you cannot expect a University degree because of it. It is possible they will refuse to let you test out, and it's possible that this is because they are trying to extract more money. But there's also a practical issue which goes along side of this.
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The point is, they need documentation of an arbitrary "requirement". If it's a legit requirement, that's one thing, but most classes aren't legitimately required for a degree in a specific subject. They are added in order to force people to take more classes than necessary.

My point is that if people want a well-rounded education, they should get a library card or take the courses on their own outside of their pursuit of a degree.

Arbitrarily decided requirements imposed for unrelated degrees aren't increasing the level of education in the world. They merely increase the amount of dollars going to a school.

Not all Universities allow you to test out of courses, and most don't have tests for certain courses. Many require you to have taken the course somewhere and don't allow for you to have gotten an at-home education.

It's a waste of time, as a better education can be found at the library so long as the person has the drive.
 
If people want a more well rounded education with the documentation to prove it, they should go to University

If people want a more narrow focused education which concerns itself mostly with just courses of the major, they should go to College.

You should not go to University and expect to do the work of a College institution and expect a University degree.

Now if you want to talk about ass backwards crap, that would come in the form of the Graduate School. Which is making me redo my signature page because it wasn't justified correctly and my committee members had "Dr." in front of their names. That's completely inane as no one will ever read the signature page, the only important thing on the signature page is the signatures themselves. Functionally, that's the purpose. The committee and department sign off on my dissertation and say that I've met all the requirements. But the Graduate School is bureaucratic hell, and if your signature page isn't justified correctly or has a bolded date on it, they won't accept it. Then you have to run around again getting signatures on a new signature page which meets their requirements which they were incredibly vague on in the rules on how to construct the signature page......assholes!
 
Ikari said:
If people want a more well rounded education with the documentation to prove it, they should go to University

If people want a more narrow focused education which concerns itself mostly with just courses of the major, they should go to College.

You should not go to University and expect to do the work of a College institution and expect a University degree.
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If people are going to a school for an education, they are being retarded. You can get a better education for way less by picking up a varied array of textbooks and reading them.

The only intelligent reason to go to any school is for a piece of paper that fools people into thinking that you have an education. In reality, all that piece of paper means is that you spent a lot of money to be told by someone else that you have to read a bunch of books and then they monitor you on whether or not you really read them.

They might toss in some papers or tests to determine how well you understood what you read, but in truth it's all just reading in the end. Or listening to someone else's interpretation of the reading.

Nothing that can't be achieved with a library card and a will to learn.
 
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Ikari said:
Now if you want to talk about ass backwards crap, that would come in the form of the Graduate School. Which is making me redo my signature page because it wasn't justified correctly and my committee members had "Dr." in front of their names. That's completely inane as no one will ever read the signature page, the only important thing on the signature page is the signatures themselves. Functionally, that's the purpose. The committee and department sign off on my dissertation and say that I've met all the requirements. But the Graduate School is bureaucratic hell, and if your signature page isn't justified correctly or has a bolded date on it, they won't accept it. Then you have to run around again getting signatures on a new signature page which meets their requirements which they were incredibly vague on in the rules on how to construct the signature page......assholes!
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That's basically the same thing in principle to what I'm dealing with regarding my stats class. It's all bull****. :lol:
 
Ikari said:
Yeah, that sort of stuff is ok...but then you never know if you've ****ed up unless you can understand the numbers as well. Engineers....they kinda take the easy way out. But by doing so, lose out on a lot of information. Not the top engineers mind you, those guys tend to be remarkable. But the average ones. And it happens a lot, it's important to know the math and understand the numbers. Otherwise, you're not much above a monkey.
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I understand the numbers, just not that complicated. Simple formulas in every day life are one thing, advanced algebra is another.

I don't think most people even get past basic college algebra. For my major I did not need to, and that was it for me. Multiplying a fraction is one thing, advanced physics computation is another, lol.
 
Tucker Case said:
Autocad and drafting aren't carpentry. ;) It's much easier to draw it up with a computer than it is to put it up in reality.

For example, let's say you got a 8/12 roof with a an 8ft ceiling. The outside wall is staggered in 1 ft 9 inches, but the overhang of the roof is unstaggered.

I'm going to have to raise the height of the staggered in portion of the wall by a certain amount of inches so that I can rest my rafters on it. (these types of things are almost always missing on the prints, so we basically have to figure it out on the job)

To describe the algebra involved, we are moving in 1 foot 9 inches or 21 inches inward (which relates to the 12 portion of the 8/12 pitch). X will equal the height I need to raise the inner portion of the staggered wall to set the rafters on and that relates to the 8 of the 8/12 pitch.

So the known numbers are 21 inches, 12 inches, and 8 inches. The unknown is X

To find my ratio for this I divide take 21/12 * 8 = X

21/12 = 1 and 9/12 = 1 and 3/4. 1 and 3/4 * 8 = 14 inches.

Then I have to raise the bird's mouth on the rafters for this portion of the roof to suit the raised walls, thus keeping my overhang even throughout while staggering the inside wall.

It gets really complicated if the rafters are Jack rafters and not common rafters.
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I see your point and agree.

Still hated homework and it still is not needed. ;)
 
Algebra and numerical analysis are two different things though. I honestly can't see what's hard about any form of algebra. It usually comes down to just moving things in an equation around. Or in linear algebra, simply setting up a matrix. I think most people can get through University algebra if they apply themselves well enough. It may be harder for some than others, but at the same accord it's not so tough as to completely leave everyone behind.
 
Ikari said:
Algebra and numerical analysis are two different things though. I honestly can't see what's hard about any form of algebra. It usually comes down to just moving things in an equation around. Or in linear algebra, simply setting up a matrix. I think most people can get through University algebra if they apply themselves well enough. It may be harder for some than others, but at the same accord it's not so tough as to completely leave everyone behind.
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Well it comes naturally to some and not others. I have a problem with memorization, so the formulas involved were very tough for me to remember even with notes. Left a bad taste in my mouth. Yet I love geometry and trig, go figure?
 
Ikari said:
Algebra and numerical analysis are two different things though. I honestly can't see what's hard about any form of algebra. It usually comes down to just moving things in an equation around. Or in linear algebra, simply setting up a matrix. I think most people can get through University algebra if they apply themselves well enough. It may be harder for some than others, but at the same accord it's not so tough as to completely leave everyone behind.
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I used to think like that because, like you, math has always been very easy for me.

But I've tutored some people that made me believe that, for some, math is outrageously difficult. They put in a ton of effort but don't seem to grasp it.

I have to spend most of the tutoring time trying to approach the problems from different angles and through analogies just to get them to teh point where they can pass.

The thing is, in other pursuits these were often very intelligent people. Tehy just had a blind spot when it came to math.
 
Tucker Case said:
I used to think like that because, like you, math has always been very easy for me.

But I've tutored some people that made me believe that, for some, math is outrageously difficult. They put in a ton of effort but don't seem to grasp it.

I have to spend most of the tutoring time trying to approach the problems from different angles and through analogies just to get them to teh point where they can pass.

The thing is, in other pursuits these were often very intelligent people. Tehy just had a blind spot when it came to math.
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Numbers are awesome. The way they interact is simply beautiful and quite gratifying, its one of the reasons I went into IT.
 
Tucker Case said:
I used to think like that because, like you, math has always been very easy for me.

But I've tutored some people that made me believe that, for some, math is outrageously difficult. They put in a ton of effort but don't seem to grasp it.

I have to spend most of the tutoring time trying to approach the problems from different angles and through analogies just to get them to teh point where they can pass.

The thing is, in other pursuits these were often very intelligent people. Tehy just had a blind spot when it came to math.
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I've tutored people who made me believe that for some, thinking is outrageous difficult. Nothing more infuriating than doing 4-5 problems for someone over the same damned thing, and then they still can't understand the concept. One girl I tutored before a physics test did just that. Didn't understand problems with constant acceleration/deceleration. So I work a problem with her for a car starting from rest accelerating at constant a. Ok, she says she gets it. She then asked me to do a problem with a car starting at some velocity v and decelerating at some constant -a. It's the same damned problem, same damned equation. I do it for her. She claimed she understood, then asked me to work another constant acceleration problem. I finally told her after a few more rounds of this that she's probably going to fail the test because if she can't understand this now, she's not going to understand it 2 hours from now when she has to take a test.

Undergrads certainly have a way of making humanity look worse than it really is. But I don't think it's really true of the whole, I think I've just experienced part of the tail end of the distribution is all.
 
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