View Poll Results: Well, were we?

Voters
63. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    6 9.52%
  • No

    57 90.48%
Page 1 of 17 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 170

Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

  1. #1
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Were we better off before industrialization?

    You know, when everyone was peasants working subsistence level and people were tied to the land. Was this a better time?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In your dreams...
    Last Seen
    05-29-12 @ 02:53 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,621

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    The only societies I could say were better of before industrialization were peaceable native peoples. I am not trying to imply that they all were.

  3. #3
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Someone at the 25th percentile of earnings today has a better life than someone at the richest 10% back in 1950 and a better life than someone at the richest 1% back in 1900.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #4
    Sage
    lizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    between two worlds
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,581

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    I think that's a great question, and I think it depends on what one considers "better"

    My personal thoughts are that people were mentally, emotionally, and spiritually better off because they were more in touch with what living requires and how much they could actually do on their own. That being said, technology is great stuff, but I think it has moved us away from some very important things that we need to know in order to feel like productive and thoughtful human beings.
    So, I guess my answer is yes and no.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  5. #5
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    02-07-11 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    601

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Someone at the 25th percentile of earnings today has a better life than someone at the richest 10% back in 1950 and a better life than someone at the richest 1% back in 1900.
    true, but those people were normally happier back then.


    Since I think happiness is what is important, I still think industrialization is better though. people live longer now so they have more time to enjoy life, there are more people that can be happy, and industrialization allows people to leave the Earth in the future to continue to exist.

    :P yeah thats how i see it

  6. #6
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    02-07-11 @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    601

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I think that's a great question, and I think it depends on what one considers "better"

    My personal thoughts are that people were mentally, emotionally, and spiritually better off because they were more in touch with what living requires and how much they could actually do on their own. That being said, technology is great stuff, but I think it has moved us away from some very important things that we need to know in order to feel like productive and thoughtful human beings.
    So, I guess my answer is yes and no.
    Its a question of quality and quantity of life.

    I think today, the total time that people live, times our positive experiences in life is greater then primitive people's positive experiences times their time to experience those things.

    so we still are better off today, regardless of what rubric we use.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In your dreams...
    Last Seen
    05-29-12 @ 02:53 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,621

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Someone at the 25th percentile of earnings today has a better life than someone at the richest 10% back in 1950 and a better life than someone at the richest 1% back in 1900.
    Examples?

  8. #8
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    true, but those people were normally happier back then.
    What are you basing that on?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Examples?
    Think about the quality of life that was common back then. In 1900, even someone in the richest 1%:

    -Lived to around 55
    -Had primitive medicine
    -Barely any electricity
    -No radios or other sophisticated methods of communication
    -No sophisticated methods of travel
    -Incredibly limited access to information/knowledge

    I'd much prefer to be at the 25th% today, where despite not being as rich comparatively, you:

    -Live to around 75
    -Have access to, at worst, basic modern medicine
    -The internet/iphones/skype/etc.
    -Planes/Cars
    -Access to any information you want
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In your dreams...
    Last Seen
    05-29-12 @ 02:53 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,621

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What are you basing that on?



    Think about the quality of life that was common back then. In 1900, even someone in the richest 1%:

    -Lived to around 55
    -Had primitive medicine
    -Barely any electricity
    -No radios or other sophisticated methods of communication
    -No sophisticated methods of travel
    -Incredibly limited access to information/knowledge

    I'd much prefer to be at the 25th% today, where despite not being as rich comparatively, you:

    -Live to around 75
    -Have access to, at worst, basic modern medicine
    -The internet/iphones/skype/etc.
    -Planes/Cars
    -Access to any information you want
    I find your analogy that more technology increases the quality of life to be superficial at best, honestly. If I were in the top 1% back in the day i would've had more man hours, labor, committed to my comfort, (though it takes less man hours nowadays for the same comforts yes) I would've had people to help me put my clothes on, to light and put my candles out on my chandeliers, I would've had access to the finest products man could produce back then. I wouldve loved to have people help me bathe to tell you the truth, quite a luxury. Access to knowledge... i would've attended the institutions at the pinnacle of mans knowledge and 1900 would've not been a dismal time, rich philosophy, an age of young science

    I dont disagree completely but I disagree more than I agree.

    Also there was a much larger amount of prestige in society being in the top 25% of society back then than compared to today. I mean, everyone else was pretty much an ignorant dirt mongering doofus. (IDk probably not)

    Who is to say, without access to alot of literature on the subject but I disagree in an opinional manner towards your opinion.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    It depends on what part of the world you're looking at, and what aspects. 1600's Europe was a cesspool, 1600's China was the most advanced society in the world.

    I think industrialization has taken people farther away from the earth, from nature, from normal rhythms and stress thresholds, and from a sense of purpose to being here. Industrialization has brought destructive urbanization, more destructive wars via ever increasingly powerful weapons, increase in the speed of evolution of deadly diseases, challenges between autocracy and corporate oligarchy and civil liberties, unnatural resource demands on the planet, etc.

    On the other hand, it has brought advancements in medicine, better understanding of social and cultural conditions, the need to be inclusive of all groups (i.e. the need to include women in domestic work in WWII was an important precursor to the feminist movement), a global understanding, better information systems, higher standards of living (although this is only in the Western world, everyone else still suffers terribly for our benefit), etc.

    I think on the whole things are pretty balanced. When better things come, worse things seem to come to compensate. In any case, the current paradigm is temporary and non-sustainable. What comes next is largely up to us.

Page 1 of 17 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •