View Poll Results: Well, were we?

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Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

  1. #81
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Yea, prostitution is much better than sewing stuff...
    Getting paid a decent wage is better than slave labor.

  2. #82
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    , you know nothing of research, so go back home and stop commenting on the subject. Have you ever even seen an article in a scientific journal? I seriously doubt it.
    I have, and I believe the vast majority of research comes from universities and non-profit research centers.

  3. #83
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    False choice.
    No, it's not. Those are pretty much the only options available to children trying to find work in the third world.

    In 2000, for example, the BBC did an expose on sweatshop factories in Cambodia with ties to both Nike and the Gap. The BBC uncovered unsavory working conditions, and found several examples of children under 15 years of age working 12 or more hour shifts.

    After the BBC expose aired, both Nike and the Gap pulled out of Cambodia, costing the country $10 million in contracts, and costing hundreds of Cambodians their jobs.

    There are lots more examples like that one.

    • In the early 1990s, the United States Congress considered a piece of legislation called the "Child Labor Deterrence Act," which would have taken punitive action against companies benefiting from child labor. The Act never passed, but the public debate it triggered put enormous pressure on a number of multinational corporations. One German garment maker that would have been hit with trade repercussions if the Act had passed laid off 50,000 child workers in Bangladesh. The British charity organization Oxfam later conducted a study which found that thousands of those laid-off children later became prostitutes, turned to crime, or starved to death.

    • The United Nations organization UNICEF reports that an international boycott of the Nepalese carpet industry in the mid-1990s caused several plants to shut down, and forced thousands of Nepalese girls into prostitution.

    • In 1995, a consortium of anti-sweatshop groups threw the spotlight on football (soccer) stitching plants in Pakistan. In particular, the effort targeted enforcing a ban on sweatshop soccer balls by the time the 1998 World Cup began in France. In response, Nike and Reebok shut down their plants in Pakistan and several other companies followed suit. The result: tens of thousands of Pakistanis were again unemployed. According to UPI, mean family income in Pakistan fell by more than 20%.


    A World Connected - Sweatshops and Globalization
    If you've ever contributed in any way to the shut down of a sweatshop in a third world country, then you've contributed to the deaths or sexual exploitation of children.


  4. #84
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Getting paid a decent wage is better than slave labor.
    You have no understanding of economics, do you? If you forced companies to pay them a "decent wage", there would be no incentive to hire them in the first place. The only reason they have a job is because they're able to underbid other laborers. If you artificially raise their wages, they'll just get underbid by someone else.

    Basic econ, that...

  5. #85
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    NJL isn't badmouthing research, you goof. She's badmouthing Big Pharma. If you're not able to figure that out, you're not ready for the field you are pursuing, and when your Big Pharma overlords tell you to research limp dick syndrome, you'll research limp dick syndrome.
    , I must be one big prick, because here I thought that most funding for research comes from the government. I must be losing it.

    Private companies then are going to fill in for whatever research is not done by the government, because they can just leach off of government research.
    Last edited by phattonez; 03-04-10 at 05:17 PM.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #86
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Getting paid a decent wage is better than slave labor.
    Who is a slave in a free market? Please, do tell.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, it's not. Those are pretty much the only options available to children trying to find work in the third world.



    If you've ever contributed in any way to the shut down of a sweatshop in a third world country, then you've contributed to the deaths or sexual exploitation of children.

    What a big steaming pile of sophistry. So let me get this straight, Nike and the gap were caught running sweatshops in Cambodia and instead of cleaning up the facilities, not hiring children, not making people work 12+ hour shifts and providing a decent wage (or providing decent wage and working conditions in the first place) they pulled their operations and sent these workers into a worse position. You want to blame people who find this abhorrent? You really are.... never mind, you're not worth the points.

    Nike =
    BEAVERTON, Ore., Sept. 14 Nike Inc. said today that its first-quarter profit rose 10 percent, beating Wall Street forecasts.

    The company, based in Beaverton, posted net income of $210 million, or 77 cents a share, for the three months ended Aug. 31, compared with $200 million, or 70 cents a share, in the period a year earlier.

    Revenue rose 5 percent, to $2.6 billion from $2.5 billion a year earlier.
    The Gap=
    GPS Financials
    Sales $14.197 bil
    Profits $1.102 bil
    Assets $8.43 bil
    Employees 134000.0
    Yeah, damn me for wanting them to treat their employees like humans.

  8. #88
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You have no understanding of economics, do you?
    I believe I have a better grasp on economics than you have on being decent to your fellow man.

    If you forced companies to pay them a "decent wage", there would be no incentive to hire them in the first place.
    You must be right because unemployment is at 100% because of the minimum wage... do you bother to think about what you say or do you just assume everyone can be steamrolled like you surely do in bar-guments.

    The only reason they have a job is because they're able to underbid other laborers. If you artificially raise their wages, they'll just get underbid by someone else.
    Unless, for the sake of society, you are regulated by a minimum wage. and amazingly enough, we STILL have businesses operating in this country since the minimum wage was begun in 1938, despite your ignorant premises.

    Basic econ, that...
    Basic social studies, that...

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    For some inexplicable reason, the Lefties think that when they force a company to raise wages at gun point that the company won't adjust the number of employees downwards until their wage expenses are close to what they were before the Lefties interfered.

    Companies facing higer wage expenses cut back on non-regulated compensation, they cut back on number of employees, number of hours worked, shift employees from full-time to part-time, allow their workforce to dimish via attrition, automate to remove workers, simply don't hire new employees.

    You'd figure after a hundred plus years of watching government screw up economies in Europe and the Americas that the Left would see the idiocy of their ways.

    But they don't.

  10. #90
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Either you are really ignorant of farming or you're just flatly disingenuous.

    Sweatshops do not allow for the accumulation of wealth because as the definition of the name implies, you don't get paid ****. The pay allowed you to live in poverty. It would have been a rare thing in the early 20th century to find someone leaving the farm to go work in a sweat shop unless the farm was sold/repossessed. In other words, out of desperation. The majority of sweatshop workers were immigrants that had no farm in the USA to begin with.
    You can't compare sweatshop areas to modern Western Living standards. Sweatshops routinely pay 2-3xs the average wage in the areas that they're set up in. They're also typically much safer. There's a reason why people try really hard to get into them. Like it or not that's how impoverished nations develop. It's how we, the Europeans, and East Asians developed. China and India are developing thanks to them. Sweatshops rule
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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