View Poll Results: Well, were we?

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Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

  1. #51
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    As far as the original question, there are strengths and weaknesses to every age. I do believe we lost a lot when we moved from an agrarian society to an industrual one. We gained some things too. I doubt that human beings became happier, although we definitely have more material things...

  2. #52
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    As far as the original question, there are strengths and weaknesses to every age. I do believe we lost a lot when we moved from an agrarian society to an industrual one. We gained some things too. I doubt that human beings became happier, although we definitely have more material things...
    I don't think there is many people that would disagree with that.


    I am curious how you factor in that people live longer, and that there are more people today then there were before industrialization though. I consider those two things to be positives, even beyond happiness, that we have now compared with before industrialization

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    I don't think there is many people that would disagree with that.


    I am curious how you factor in that people live longer, and that there are more people today then there were before industrialization though. I consider those two things to be positives, even beyond happiness, that we have now compared with before industrialization
    I believe that, as it has become common to live to old age, that the elderly are less revered. They have become a common place group that is considered a burden on society. I think this will get worse and worse as the baby boomers age.

  4. #54
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So wages didn't rise before government intervention? Really? Where's the proof?
    I never implied that, you came to that argument in your own psyche. How you pulled that out of what I said it beyond me.

    That was a low and terrible argument. It ignored all the lessons of classical economics.
    No, you mean to say you believe that an artificial minimum wage ignores all the lessons of classical economics. Classical economics is not in this discussion, how you came to that, I also don't know. Try and make arguments that follow the conversation.

    You're applying your knowledge of classical economics, thats fine. Youre knowledge of economics has nothing to do with the assertion that the writers of wage laws were ignorant to economics. Last I remembered developed governments had their own degree of control over the economy, which is not some sort of sanctified realm never to be interdicted upon. The economy does not have human considerations in mind. You seem to not mind that.

  5. #55
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No. It's okay for me to offer whatever wage I want and for people to accept or refuse that wage accordingly.
    Hey now, your sounding like me.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

  6. #56
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    I believe that, as it has become common to live to old age, that the elderly are less revered. They have become a common place group that is considered a burden on society. I think this will get worse and worse as the baby boomers age.
    WHOLE other point.

    but that is important in this discussion though.

    I was more commenting that even if we aren't quite as happy, we live longer, so being slightly less happy for longer could be preferable to being slightly happy for a short period of time.

  7. #57
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    I believe that, as it has become common to live to old age, that the elderly are less revered. They have become a common place group that is considered a burden on society. I think this will get worse and worse as the baby boomers age.
    WHOLE other point.

    but that is important in this discussion though.

    I was more commenting that even if we aren't quite as happy, we live longer, so being slightly less happy for longer could be preferable to being slightly happy for a short period of time.


    and think about all of the millions of people today that could feel happiness, when they would not have been born a few thousand years ago

  8. #58
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    I never implied that, you came to that argument in your own psyche. How you pulled that out of what I said it beyond me.
    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    It's not okay, in the twenty first century representative action in the past accounts for the living wage nowadays.
    You're trying to say that wages only rose because of government intervention.

    No, you mean to say you believe that an artificial minimum wage ignores all the lessons of classical economics. Classical economics is not in this discussion, how you came to that, I also don't know. Try and make arguments that follow the conversation.
    It has everything to do with this argument! Classical economics teaches us that those below the minimum wage will not be hired.

    You're applying your knowledge of classical economics, thats fine. Youre knowledge of economics has nothing to do with the assertion that the writers of wage laws were ignorant to economics. Last I remembered developed governments had their own degree of control over the economy, which is not some sort of sanctified realm never to be interdicted upon. The economy does not have human considerations in mind. You seem to not mind that.
    I don't mind that. If you want to give to charity then that's fine, but don't force people to be charitable. That's nothing more than theft.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #59
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    As far as the original question, there are strengths and weaknesses to every age. I do believe we lost a lot when we moved from an agrarian society to an industrual one. We gained some things too. I doubt that human beings became happier, although we definitely have more material things...
    No I'm pretty sure we did become happier. Less disease, a better diet, our families live much longer, friends from childhood don't die as easily, we don't go hungry almost half the year, etc. We are so much better now that we are not subsistence farmers.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #60
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    WHOLE other point.

    but that is important in this discussion though.

    I was more commenting that even if we aren't quite as happy, we live longer, so being slightly less happy for longer could be preferable to being slightly happy for a short period of time.
    It all depends on what happens after death. If consciousness is dependent on this physical plane of existence, then clinging to life, no matter how bleak or depressing, is our only hope of awareness.

    If this life is merely a stepping stone to another, greater existence, then our physical lives are merely confining and temporal robes that we could well do without when they wear out.

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