View Poll Results: Well, were we?

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Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

  1. #41
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    True, when the market is flooded with workers SOME employers took advantage of this situation to pay less than is reasonable, in conditions that were unsafe.
    Define reasonable.

    Why do you think laws popped up to end such practices? Because it is inhumane to take advantage of your fellow man in such a fashion. Funny how this is exactly what corporations (including American corps) do in developing countries. If it's morally wrong for our society then isn't it wrong for American companies to do it outside the USA? This is a good indication that large corporations in general have no morality and therefore need to be regulated to prevent them from doing immoral things to humans
    Those laws came about because of a lack of understanding of economics. I want our laws repealed about wage requirements.

    and the planet.
    Better property rights would protect the environment.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #42
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    The only societies I could say were better of before industrialization were peaceable native peoples. I am not trying to imply that they all were.
    People native to where? We all descend from 'native peoples' you know.

    You aren't speaking of 'The Noble Red Man' are you? I wouldn't think that someone as highly educated as yourself would subscribe to those sort of stereotypes...

  3. #43
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I was mostly thinking of 18th century Britain. People left their farms (unless forced by act of Parliament, which was rare) because there was a better opportunity in the city. Subsistence farming is like the worst form of life there is.
    As I suspected, you don't know the first thing about farming nor subsistence farming.

    When did we start talking about Britain in the 1700s? Oh, when you needed to wiggle in a debate.

  4. #44
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No. It's okay for me to offer whatever wage I want and for people to accept or refuse that wage accordingly.
    nevermind. I'm done with debating you.

  5. #45
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    People native to where? We all descend from 'native peoples' you know.

    You aren't speaking of 'The Noble Red Man' are you? I wouldn't think that someone as highly educated as yourself would subscribe to those sort of stereotypes...
    Its not a stereotype, especially when I clarified in my post that there were 'some' peaceful natives people, not that they all were. I made that clarification to prevent posts like yours.

  6. #46
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    nevermind. I'm done with debating you.
    Yup, you are the best. Your intellect is so far above mine that debating with me just makes you stupider.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #47
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    As I suspected, you don't know the first thing about farming nor subsistence farming.

    When did we start talking about Britain in the 1700s? Oh, when you needed to wiggle in a debate.
    Look at the OP. Peasants? Tied to the land? That's Europe in the 18th century.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #48
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No. It's okay for me to offer whatever wage I want and for people to accept or refuse that wage accordingly.
    It's not okay, in the twenty first century representative action in the past accounts for the living wage nowadays. If you want to return to fundamentalist capitalist economics please take your time machine and leave your ideas out of this century, they have been dead for decades and only exist under governments where there is little democratic representation for a reason. Unfortunately you may not be able to deal with ideals of democracy.

    Those laws came about because of a lack of understanding of economics.
    That your trying to say is they came about in a lack of consideration for your fundamentalist ideals, your assertion that the writers of these laws were 'ignorant of economics' comes straight from a dung pile. Did you own a plantation in your past life?

  9. #49
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    It's not okay, in the twenty first century representative action in the past accounts for the living wage nowadays. If you want to return to fundamentalist capitalist economics please take your time machine and leave your ideas out of this century, they have been dead for decades and only exist under governments where there is little democratic representation for a reason. Unfortunately you may not be able to deal with ideals of democracy.
    So wages didn't rise before government intervention? Really? Where's the proof?

    That your trying to say is they came about in a lack of consideration for your fundamentalist ideals, your assertion that the writers of these laws were 'ignorant of economics' comes straight from a dung pile. Did you own a plantation in your past life?
    That was a low and terrible argument. It ignored all the lessons of classical economics.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post



    That your trying to say is they came about in a lack of consideration for your fundamentalist ideals, your assertion that the writers of these laws were 'ignorant of economics' comes straight from a dung pile. Did you own a plantation in your past life?
    You have a repeated theme of labeling, or inferring, that those who disagree with your (more liberal) point of view, are nothing more than oppressive racist overseers...

    I advise you to tread carefully with your suppositions. They easily could escalate.

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