View Poll Results: Well, were we?

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Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Yes, I'm sure the common sweatshop wage usually illegal and based off of the lowest possible production price for a good out of no consideration for the living cost of the worker which has gone up as global food prices actually allows them to accumulate wealth.

    Sure...

  2. #32
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Yes, I'm sure the common sweatshop wage usually illegal and based off of the lowest possible production price for a good out of no consideration for the living cost of the worker which has gone up as global food prices actually allows them to accumulate wealth.

    Sure...
    The cost of labor is independent of the cost of living. The cost of labor depends on the scarcity and demand for that labor.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #33
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The cost of labor is independent of the cost of living.
    Yes, your point?

    The cost of labor depends on the scarcity and demand for that labor.
    Again your point? What do you think of minimum wage is?
    Last edited by MKULTRABOY; 03-02-10 at 10:36 PM.

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Yes, your point?
    So don't blame the company for not paying a living wage. They don't produce an arbitrarily defined living wage, so of course they're not going to be paid that.

    Again your point? What do you think of minimum wage is?
    Minimum wage is a distortion in the market. I'm just telling you that people work for the wages that they do in the condition that they do because they aren't very skilled and because so many people can do their jobs.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    They are desperate because being a subsistence farmer sucks and basically anything is better. Let's be glad that sweatshops give them an option. Then they can accumulate wealth and raise their standard of living much quicker than they are now.
    Either you are really ignorant of farming or you're just flatly disingenuous.

    Sweatshops do not allow for the accumulation of wealth because as the definition of the name implies, you don't get paid ****. The pay allowed you to live in poverty. It would have been a rare thing in the early 20th century to find someone leaving the farm to go work in a sweat shop unless the farm was sold/repossessed. In other words, out of desperation. The majority of sweatshop workers were immigrants that had no farm in the USA to begin with.

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So don't blame the company for not paying a living wage. They don't produce an arbitrarily defined living wage, so of course they're not going to be paid that.



    Minimum wage is a distortion in the market. I'm just telling you that people work for the wages that they do in the condition that they do because they aren't very skilled and because so many people can do their jobs.
    Paying an honest days pay, for an honest days work, does not insure that wage will be one that meets ones expectations. So they should strive to improve on their situation, and move up to a better job. they use to call that incentive.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The cost of labor is independent of the cost of living. The cost of labor depends on the scarcity and demand for that labor.
    True, when the market is flooded with workers SOME employers took advantage of this situation to pay less than is reasonable, in conditions that were unsafe. Why do you think laws popped up to end such practices? Because it is inhumane to take advantage of your fellow man in such a fashion. Funny how this is exactly what corporations (including American corps) do in developing countries. If it's morally wrong for our society then isn't it wrong for American companies to do it outside the USA? This is a good indication that large corporations in general have no morality and therefore need to be regulated to prevent them from doing immoral things to humans and the planet.

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So don't blame the company for not paying a living wage. They don't produce an arbitrarily defined living wage, so of course they're not going to be paid that.



    Minimum wage is a distortion in the market. I'm just telling you that people work for the wages that they do in the condition that they do because they aren't very skilled and because so many people can do their jobs.
    Therefore it's OK to **** on them for your own gain. Got it.

  9. #39
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Either you are really ignorant of farming or you're just flatly disingenuous.

    Sweatshops do not allow for the accumulation of wealth because as the definition of the name implies, you don't get paid ****. The pay allowed you to live in poverty. It would have been a rare thing in the early 20th century to find someone leaving the farm to go work in a sweat shop unless the farm was sold/repossessed. In other words, out of desperation. The majority of sweatshop workers were immigrants that had no farm in the USA to begin with.
    I was mostly thinking of 18th century Britain. People left their farms (unless forced by act of Parliament, which was rare) because there was a better opportunity in the city. Subsistence farming is like the worst form of life there is.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Therefore it's OK to **** on them for your own gain. Got it.
    No. It's okay for me to offer whatever wage I want and for people to accept or refuse that wage accordingly.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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