View Poll Results: Well, were we?

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Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

  1. #11
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    What are you basing that on?



    Think about the quality of life that was common back then. In 1900, even someone in the richest 1%:

    -Lived to around 55
    -Had primitive medicine
    -Barely any electricity
    -No radios or other sophisticated methods of communication
    -No sophisticated methods of travel
    -Incredibly limited access to information/knowledge

    I'd much prefer to be at the 25th% today, where despite not being as rich comparatively, you:

    -Live to around 75
    -Have access to, at worst, basic modern medicine
    -The internet/iphones/skype/etc.
    -Planes/Cars
    -Access to any information you want
    From anything I have heard about how happy primitive people are, they are happier then people in industrialized nations today. I don't have a source about it though.

    I can explain that though. In primitive societies people have very strong bonds with everyone around them, and families live close. Competition may increase productivity, but it makes people slightly less happier because of the stress. In primitive societies, if you have any problems, your tribe will always be there to help you out. Not to mention that strong culture and religion give answers and hope to people.


    I am not saying that i want us to leave civilization, but a primitive person's average day is probably happier then the average person in any industrialized nation.

    Civilization is better though, for the reasons I listed in my other posts, don't worry capitalism and economic growth is good. (for now)


    and if you read my posts through, you would see that I agreed that a higher life expectancy allows people to live longer. However, living longer doesn't make your life any happier, but it makes life overall more worth living.

  2. #12
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Examples?
    When it comes to standard of living he is completely right.

    However, a tribal chief was most likely much happier then most industrialized people alive today.

  3. #13
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Is this really debatable?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #14
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Industrialization just happened to fast for us to get a good handle on it. We didn't know the long term harm much of it could, and did do. We cut down to much forest, to feed the machine. we over fished to many oceans, and poured to much poison down our drains. But we can still come to terms with it, If in are haste for a new power source, we don't "three mile Island" ourselves out of existence first. To be so smart, we sure forget the lessons of the past awfully quick.
    "Don't be particular bout nothin, but the company you keep"

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    When it comes to standard of living he is completely right.

    However, a tribal chief was most likely much happier then most industrialized people alive today.
    I can agree with this in many ways. Indigenous life lived off the land and had relatively few diseases that couldn't be treated. Most of the major diseases that the West has experienced over the past 500-600 years have been a result of urbanization... people living in close quarters en mass which allows diseases to transmit and mutant more readily.

    The world's population keeps growing though, so I think it was only a matter of time before more clever means of survival had to be invented. Industrialization doesn't have to be a bad thing. It did accompany capitalism in this case though, and I think that those two together have been more destructive than industrialism alone.

  6. #16
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skateguy View Post
    Industrialization just happened to fast for us to get a good handle on it. We didn't know the long term harm much of it could, and did do. We cut down to much forest, to feed the machine. we over fished to many oceans, and poured to much poison down our drains. But we can still come to terms with it, If in are haste for a new power source, we don't "three mile Island" ourselves out of existence first. To be so smart, we sure forget the lessons of the past awfully quick.
    That's not possible in a free market economy. Only in an economy that does not price based on supply and demand will this happen. I should also mention that you need strong property rights.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #17
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You know, when everyone was peasants working subsistence level and people were tied to the land. Was this a better time?
    Do you have a particular country or region and might you know what century your talking about?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  8. #18
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Do you have a particular country or region and might you know what century your talking about?
    I was thinking of Britain during the 1600s and 1700s, but I also had an eye toward 3rd world nations today where we are speaking out against sweatshop labor and we only want "fair-trade" goods. I mean, what is the difference between what Britain did back then and what 3rd world countries are going through now?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #19
    Educator nerv14's Avatar
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I was thinking of Britain during the 1600s and 1700s, but I also had an eye toward 3rd world nations today where we are speaking out against sweatshop labor and we only want "fair-trade" goods. I mean, what is the difference between what Britain did back then and what 3rd world countries are going through now?
    yeah sweat shops are awesome (I am not being sacastic)

  10. #20
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    I think it's a question that can't be simply answered with yes or no.

    Do we live longer? Statistics indicate yes, but are we simply living longer with debilitating diseases? Probably. I have a long line of men and women in my family living well into their 80s and 90s before 1945.

    Do we live easier? Perhaps but we also have an epidemic of obesity, diabetes, caner, autism, heart disease..

    Did we really work harder in the preindustrial era? Farming is hard work but you only do it part of the year.

    I think the best question asked is, are we happier?

    So my answer is, I don't know.

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