View Poll Results: Well, were we?

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Thread: Were we better off before industrialization?

  1. #131
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    ok, just most natural resources, but we get to lease pandas from them in return
    Pandas are important - can't have a zoo without em'
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  2. #132
    blond bombshell

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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk"]YouTube- Steven Pinker: A brief history of violence[/ame]

    this pretty sums up my feelings on the subject.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

  3. #133
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    You said it in your own words:

    You cry out against the exploitation of foreign labor to protect the exploitation of domestic labor.
    Oh I see, you think domestic labor is being exploited. Got it. See it didn't make sense until you let us in on the conversation you were having in your head.

    I don't think domestic workers (other than illegal workers) are exploited... well, except currently... Sheesh... maybe you're right. Unemployment is high while worker productivity is at it's highest ever.

  4. #134
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Oh I see, you think domestic labor is being exploited. Got it. See it didn't make sense until you let us in on the conversation you were having in your head.

    I don't think domestic workers (other than illegal workers) are exploited... well, except currently... Sheesh... maybe you're right. Unemployment is high while worker productivity is at it's highest ever.
    Even by your own definition, workers here are exploited(what you call slavery; but perhaps better: wage-slavery); our bosses all make profits off of us, and if they don't we get the boot. The difference between here and China or Mexico etc., is that the rate of exploitation is higher in those places, just as it is now higher here than just a few years ago.

  5. #135
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikhail View Post
    YouTube- Steven Pinker: A brief history of violence

    this pretty sums up my feelings on the subject.
    That only talks about violence, not necessarily if we are "Better off". Sure there are less wars which means less chance for death caused by violence. But are we living any better?

  6. #136
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    Even by your own definition, workers here are exploited(what you call slavery; but perhaps better: wage-slavery); our bosses all make profits off of us, and if they don't we get the boot. The difference between here and China or Mexico etc., is that the rate of exploitation is higher in those places, just as it is now higher here than just a few years ago.
    I can agree with what you are saying except I don't think I used "slavery" in reference to today's worker in the USA. Just to clarify that point.

  7. #137
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    I'm just pointing out that corporations have no morals and should be viewed that way instead of the deities we've turned them into. Surely you can see that?
    All I see is a lame strawman argument that has no relevance to anything I've said.

  8. #138
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    OH THE HORROR!!!! What would our poor multi-billion dollar companies do if they can't rape a third world country? *gasp* QUICK GIVE THEM WHATEVER THEY WANT BEFORE THEY CHARGE MORE FOR MY LAMP!!!!!!

    Well, as I'm sure you'd admit if you weren't simply trying to win an argument that you would have to impose Tariffs on imported goods rather than try to force a minimum wage on another sovereign nation.
    Do you have a relevant counter-point to my argument, or is inane blathering the only thing you're capable of?

    On the other side of that coin, it's helped a lot of FAMILIES get by...
    While harming other families.

    ...trade offs are rarely great for all involved but again, I have to side with the people who really NEED a minimum wage.
    Once again, empirical literature shows that minimum wage laws hurt the people they are intended to help, namely minorities and teens.

    How does it hurt minorities when they are the group most likely to need it?
    It's simple supply and demand. A minimum wage acts as a binding price floor, which results in a surplus of labor (unemployment). A person with no skills or education is therefore excluded from the labor market because the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equilibrium_price"]equilibrium price[/ame] of their labor is below the price floor.

    Hmm... bring jobs back to the USA?
    Oh yes, I'm sure there are millions of Americans clamoring for minimum wage jobs where they sew clothing...
    Last edited by Ethereal; 03-12-10 at 09:04 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Firstly, if there's a job shortage in the market, attracting "more" laborers isn't an issue. As to "better quality", if it's a job with little entry requirements, like a factory job, there's usually no good way to gauge "better" workers.
    Even the craptastic foreign companies pay 2-3xs more than local businesses. People will also still look for the best businesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Just because they're better than the status quo, that doesn't mean they couldn't be even better, by offering safer conditions, or more pay, or more practical schedules. Better than nothing doesn't equal good.
    Again, if you have a workable way of doing this, I'd love to hear it. I'll take less crappy over eally crappy any day, and apparently so would these people, as they move in to take these jobs in droves

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Factories that treat people as people and not a commodity would be a start.
    Labor is a commodity. Businesses do their best to attract it, and people will only accept it voluntarily. It's not like people are just giving out middle class jobs in these areas,
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 03-13-10 at 01:22 AM.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Were we better off before industrialization?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    So because you are able to take advantage of someone, you should. We already know this about corporatists, got anything new?
    If they agree to it, why not. You still haven't stated why it's any of your business to stop the mutually agreed upon trade.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Umm, because taking advantage of a persons situation in order to profit is a form of slavery.
    So you taking a raise is slavery? So you paying for something is slavery? You get taken advantage of every day. Your comparisons to actual slavery devalue what actual slavery is.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    If the option is to die or work like a dog in unsafe conditions for what amounts to owing the company store... either you can't understand it or won't... I'm gonna go with intellectual dishonesty.
    And if you take away the second option, what do they have left?!

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Because we have things called standards.
    You're begging the question. Why do we have this standard, because it's the standard. Again, you still haven't answered my question as to why it's any of your business if an employer agrees with me to pay me less than $7.25 an hour.
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