Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

[obvious Child]

As the VA is a socialized medical system where the state owns the hospitals, employs the doctors and controls the medical procedures, it is therefore evil and must be eliminated.

Furthermore, all politicians who voted for increasing funding to the Evil that is VA should be booted from office. Which includes Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell, both of which, amusingly have stated opposition to Obama's plan partly due to its "socialism."

GovTrack: House Vote On Passage: H.R. 1016: Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act of 2009

 

[Slartibartfast]

This is a good question that goes right to the heart of the matter I think. Is it inconsistent for people to oppose certain forms of socialism but accept others?

 

[RightinNYC]

This is a good question that goes right to the heart of the matter I think. Is it inconsistent for people to oppose certain forms of socialism but accept others?

I don't think so. It's entirely reasonable to accept that the VA serves a particular purpose and isn't likely to change, but still be opposed to a larger health reform proposal that would operate in a substantially different fashion. That doesn't mean that the VA is objectively a good thing or a model for a single-payer system, but simply that it is what it is.

If every politician who is reluctant to cut a popular program despite thinking it makes sense is a coward, then we've got a whole lot of cowards in DC.

 

[Cold Highway]

Taking care of our armed forces is a legitimate power of the Federal Government.

 

[VanceMack]

How exactly do you figure that the VA is socialized medicine? Lifetime healthcare is one of the perks offered to soldiers who accept low pay, insane working conditions, extended deployments, and risk to life and limb. Only an idiotic troll would make such a comparison.

 

[Ockham]

I can see the VA continuing to be part of the Defense Budget which would plan for and care for existing and former vets and provide for their health and pensions. That's constitutionally supported and arguably, part of the only portion of Government which MUST be cared for.

That said, if our health care system was to truly transform and be effective, competitive and unlike the current abortive mass of Democratic bills in Congress, was part of a plan to reduce health care costs, a separate VA may not be needed for health care services and could be possibly rolled up into the new national health care plan. But we cannot get past the ideological and progressive plan to force health care theft being pushed upon us, so the thought that the VA could be rolled up into a cost effective national health care update is scient fiction.

 

[RightinNYC]

How exactly do you figure that the VA is socialized medicine? Lifetime healthcare is one of the perks offered to soldiers who accept low pay, insane working conditions, extended deployments, and risk to life and limb. Only an idiotic troll would make such a comparison.

The rationale for its existence has nothing to do with the nature of its organization.

Please don't call people names.

 

[lizzie]

It's not evil, it's just sub-standard relative to what many citizens expect.

 

[bicycleman]

If the state owns the VA hospitals, why isn't the state of Colorado being sued instead of the federal government?

Federal Government Sued After Colorado Veterans Hospital Leaves Clamp In Man's Body

 

[bicycleman]

As the VA is a socialized medical system where the state owns the hospitals, employs the doctors and controls the medical procedures, it is therefore evil and must be eliminated.

Furthermore, all politicians who voted for increasing funding to the Evil that is VA should be booted from office. Which includes Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell, both of which, amusingly have stated opposition to Obama's plan partly due to its "socialism."

GovTrack: House Vote On Passage: H.R. 1016: Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act of 2009

It's a socialized medical system for an exclusive club, those who gave of themselves to defend this country. Notice, it's not for everybody.

 

[Arch Enemy]

It's not evil, it's just sub-standard relative to what many citizens expect.

Being a voice of reason isn't fitting, Lizzie. You have to be extreme and blatantly partisan, so people will respond to you.

 

[earthworm]

This is a good question that goes right to the heart of the matter I think. Is it inconsistent for people to oppose certain forms of socialism but accept others?

Its not really inconsistant, its logical or intelligent.
Something the tea-bagging conservatives cannot come to grips with.
Medicine should be at least semi-socialized.
The VA costs are affordable for me.
My poll answer was sourastic...forgive the pspelling..:spin:

 

[earthworm]

I don't think so. It's entirely reasonable to accept that the VA serves a particular purpose and isn't likely to change, but still be opposed to a larger health reform proposal that would operate in a substantially different fashion. That doesn't mean that the VA is objectively a good thing or a model for a single-payer system, but simply that it is what it is.

If every politician who is reluctant to cut a popular program despite thinking it makes sense is a coward, then we've got a whole lot of cowards in DC.Few will dispute this.

Why not use the VA as a model for semi-socialized medicine?.
Completely leave the conservatives out of this equasion, their thinking, such as it is, is based on ignorance and fear.
I feel this socialized medicine/health care is the wave of the future....We'll just have to wait for our conservatives to die off and be replace with something better, I hope.

 

[RightinNYC]

Why not use the VA as a model for semi-socialized medicine?

Because it would be pretty foolish to automatically assume that the VA's model would work on the general populace. I would wager that the average veteran's necessary care is not particularly representative of the average citizen's necessary care. Furthermore, the VA operates by hiring its own doctors to perform procedures and by then indemnifying them from suit. That doesn't really work in the broader context. Finally, VA patients do not receive all of their care through the VA - they use private insurers and Medicare to cover certain procedures.

Completely leave the conservatives out of this equasion, their thinking, such as it is, is based on ignorance and fear.
I feel this socialized medicine/health care is the wave of the future....We'll just have to wait for our conservatives to die off and be replace with something better, I hope.

Cute.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

The VA is that government organization established to implement the contracts the government made with it's military servicemen.

As such, it is not socialism.

It's actually a real obligation of the people.

People that don't want to support the men who protected their freedom still have the freedom to move to Cuba or Chavez-Land.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

This is a good question that goes right to the heart of the matter I think. Is it inconsistent for people to oppose certain forms of socialism but accept others?

Since the VA isn't socialism, you're missing the heart of the matter.

Socialism is the theft of wealth to provide unearned benefits to others.

Notice the use of the word "unearned" in the preceding sentence.

 

[UtahBill]

Why not use the VA as a model for semi-socialized medicine?.
Completely leave the conservatives out of this equasion, their thinking, such as it is, is based on ignorance and fear.
I feel this socialized medicine/health care is the wave of the future....We'll just have to wait for our conservatives to die off and be replace with something better, I hope.

The VA model includes the fact that the benefits are EARNED by service to country. If the rest of the citizens want the benefits, they should earn them...

 

[Ockham]

Its not really inconsistant, its logical or intelligent.
Something the tea-bagging conservatives cannot come to grips with.
Medicine should be at least semi-socialized.
The VA costs are affordable for me.
My poll answer was sourastic...forgive the pspelling..:spin:

Im a tea bagging conservative who came to grips with it on the first page. So this wasn't a real issue just another partisan troll post is that it?:2wave:

 

[earthworm]

Because it would be pretty foolish to automatically assume that the VA's model would work on the general populace. I would wager that the average veteran's necessary care is not particularly representative of the average citizen's necessary care.True, but health care is health care Furthermore, the VA operates by hiring its own doctors to perform procedures and by then indemnifying them from suit. ... meaning? That doesn't really work in the broader context. Finally, VA patients do not receive all of their care through the VA - they use private insurers and Medicare to cover certain procedures.
That option should continue.






Cute.

What we have now does not work that well.
Agree?
The VA model strikes me as better, I have been fortuniate to have had partial coverage from the Blues and Travelers Insurance(Grumman Aircraft), but these are very expensive and not efficient.
The paperwork is staggering.

Not "cute", intended to be mean.

I am disgusted with those will do nothing, but criticize and comdemn..
What I propose is not the best, not perfect, but it is an improvement.
Do you think for one minute that our Constitution was a perfect piece of work when first proposed?
But, at least our founding fathers were willing to work. Which is a hell of a lot more than what can be said for todays rodent infested Congress.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Why not use the VA as a model for semi-socialized medicine?.

Because we don't need socialized medicine, or even medicine infected with socialism in this country.

We need a free market.

 

[Ockham]

Because it would be pretty foolish to automatically assume that the VA's model would work on the general populace. I would wager that the average veteran's necessary care is not particularly representative of the average citizen's necessary care. Furthermore, the VA operates by hiring its own doctors to perform procedures and by then indemnifying them from suit. That doesn't really work in the broader context. Finally, VA patients do not receive all of their care through the VA - they use private insurers and Medicare to cover certain procedures.




Cute.

Grayson said it better. Cute in this case = boring and unoriginal.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

What we have now does not work that well.
Agree?

Yes. The government is involved. That's why it isn't working.

That being the case, more government is feeding the tumor growth hormones.

The VA model strikes me as better, I have been fortuniate to have had partial coverage from the Blues and Travelers Insurance(Grumman Aircraft), but these are very expensive and not efficient.
The paperwork is staggering.

Not "cute", intended to be mean.

I am disgusted with those will do nothing, but criticize and comdemn..
What I propose is not the best, not perfect, but it is an improvement.
Do you think for one minute that our Constitution was a perfect piece of work when first proposed?
But, at least our founding fathers were willing to work. Which is a hell of a lot more than what can be said for todays rodent infested Congress.

The VA system sucks.

Implementing that model on a national scale will suck on a national scale.

That's all it will do.

Since nationalized health care isn't constitutional, why aren't you people seeking constitutional options?

 

[earthworm]

Im a tea bagging conservative who came to grips with it on the first page. So this wasn't a real issue just another partisan troll post is that it?:2wave:

It?
Define.
I talking about reasoning and thinking.
Am I partisan?
.. maybe..

 

[lizzie]

Being a voice of reason isn't fitting, Lizzie. You have to be extreme and blatantly partisan, so people will respond to you.

Hah!:mrgreen:
Thanks- I'll try to keep that in mind.
Yes, socialized medicine is evil, and all evil must be eradicated, thus the VA must be eliminated. Now. Get it done already. We need to get God in the medical system.

 

[RightinNYC]

What we have now does not work that well.
Agree?

Depends on your perspective. We have a system whereby 90% of people have health insurance. That includes all of the elderly, all of the truly poor, and all children (up to a certain income level, after which it's the parents responsibility). Despite the fact that our country is comprised primarily of entitled and obese people, that care is quite good. Finally, despite the fact that our culture is revulsed by the thought of quite sensible cost controls such as NICE, our costs are not extraordinarily high (after adjusting for our obesity).

All of that is irrelevant though, because the question is not "does this system work," it's "is this proposal better?"

The VA model strikes me as better, I have been fortuniate to have had partial coverage from the Blues and Travelers Insurance(Grumman Aircraft), but these are very expensive and not efficient.
The paperwork is staggering.

You're basing your support for a fundamentally different system of health care delivery on the fact that you're unhappy with the cost/convenience of your current care. Setting aside the fact that I very much doubt your up front costs come close to covering actual expenses, that's not a very good basis for supporting a change.

Not "cute", intended to be mean.

I am disgusted with those will do nothing, but criticize and comdemn..
What I propose is not the best, not perfect, but it is an improvement.
Do you think for one minute that our Constitution was a perfect piece of work when first proposed?
But, at least our founding fathers were willing to work. Which is a hell of a lot more than what can be said for todays rodent infested Congress.

Again, saying that something is an improvement is not the same as it actually being an improvement. Our founders structured Congress the way they did so as to keep uninformed public opinion from ruling the day.