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Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

The VA should be eliminated because it's Socialized Medicine which is Evil

  • Total voters
    35
I never knew I could make up my own definitions of words!

Ok, OK... I'm going to define "conservativism" as "selfishness to the point of delusion!"

This is fun! Why, by defining words the way I want, I can claim that anything is or is not included by their definition!
 
SE102 said:
How ambiguous. How is healthcare not a right? Don't they treat everyone that comes to a hospital for care? Maybe they should have american patriots at the doors to turn people away that don't have insurance so people can go die in ditches.

And why would a veteran deserve extended healthcare over a normal citizen, they get paid a wage. Let it come out of their wages.
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A lot of them gave their lives for your freedom so you can berate them here in English rather than German or Japanese.
 
bicycleman said:
A lot of them gave their lives for your freedom so you can berate them here in English rather than German or Japanese.
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Absolutely, and without a doubt they deserve this.

That doesn't suddenly make it not socialism. It just happens to be socialism you agree with.
 
Groucho said:
Absolutely, and without a doubt they deserve this.

That doesn't suddenly make it not socialism. It just happens to be socialism you agree with.
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We're on the same page, Groucho, but it tends to be lousy medical care. Our law makers need to look long and hard at how our vets are treated when they seek to pass health care legislation because that could be a foretelling on how medical care will be for all Americans, not just veterans.
 
SE102 said:
How ambiguous. How is healthcare not a right? Don't they treat everyone that comes to a hospital for care? Maybe they should have American patriots at the doors to turn people away that don't have insurance so people can go die in ditches.
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Absurdity.
Health care is a privilege, not a right.
And why on earth would anyone suggest that which you state here?

SE102 said:
And why would a veteran deserve extended healthcare over a normal citizen, they get paid a wage. Let it come out of their wages.
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Their wages are absurdly low for the job they do.

And VA care should, if it is not already, be considered part of their "wage" package.

Much like employers who offer/offered health care benefit packages to their employees that extended after retirement.

As I thought it already was.
 
bicycleman said:
We're on the same page, Groucho, but it tends to be lousy medical care. Our law makers need to look long and hard at how our vets are treated when they seek to pass health care legislation because that could be a foretelling on how medical care will be for all Americans, not just veterans.
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No, not all Americans. No one has suggested a plan that would force people to use government health care only.

That's why I like the public option; you don't have to use the government plan. If you like your current plan, no one will force you to leave it. (In fact, those veterans who have health care plans of their own aren't required to use the VA hospitals either.)

There may be some public hospitals that are not as good as private ones -- just like there are public schools that aren't as good as private ones -- but like the education system, no one will be required to go to public school if they'd rather go private and can afford it.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Taking care of our armed forces is a legitimate power of the Federal Government.
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So the rationale there is the VA deserves the best? And socialized medicine is the best we can offer them.

Makes sense to me.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Doesn't mean it's socialism.

Socialism is theft to provide unearned benefits to others.

The veterans earned their reward.
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I earned Govt. run health care?

Wow thanks.

At least the old folks get to choose where they go.
 
rivrrat said:
The reason the VA needs to be overhauled or replaced isn't because it's "socialist". (it isn't socialist) It's because the men and women who agreed to dedicated part or most of their lives in service to our country deserve GREAT medical care for the rest of their lives. That is one of the boons for military service. (hence why it's not socialist) The VA is not great medical care, and that is the only reason it needs to be replaced/overhauled. It needs to be replaced with something that IS great medical care for our vets.
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Tell us all what socialism is. Then tell us who controls the means of production and allocation of resources in the USDVA. Notice the part I put in bold. It should give you a huge clue.
 
Catawba said:
So the rationale there is the VA deserves the best? And socialized medicine is the best we can offer them.

Makes sense to me.
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In theory since our troops make the ultimate sacrifice they should get top care. This is also the case in most jobs, my father is a IBEW Electrician has a much better insurance policy than I do because of the dangerous work my father does compared to me in which I run an electronics store.
 
Redress said:
Medical professionals who work at the VA tend to do so because they love to help veterans, not for profit or whatever.
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The nurses and respiratory therapists I know who work for the VA do it because the pay and benifits are better than most private hospitals. The VA is a very difficult medical entity/facilities to work for. There are a couple of really nice VA facilities that I am familair with, but most of the veterans I know personally (and there are many because I am of the Vietnam war era) hate the VA system. The care ranges from adequate to very good depending on individual circumstances. The bureaucracy is a nightmare of inefficiency.

Redress said:
The VA has had some problems which have gotten a lot of publicity, but I think it is no worse, and possibly better than the medical care nonvets get.
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Again, I personally have no problem with the "care". It's the system that sucks to deal with.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
In theory since our troops make the ultimate sacrifice they should get top care. This is also the case in most jobs, my father is a IBEW Electrician has a much better insurance policy than I do because of the dangerous work my father does compared to me in which I run an electronics store.
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What ultimate sacrifice? If you're dead you're not receiving the benefits of VA.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
In theory since our troops make the ultimate sacrifice they should get top care.
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I agree all our servicemen should get top care, its why I am proud that:

"the budget the president submitted includes the largest single-year percentage increase in VA funding in three decades."
Veterans Day - First Lady Notes VA's Road of Change - Military.com

Is it enough? No, however the largest single-year increase in three decades, is better than we have done by our servicemen even in boom times under Republican control.
 
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chevydriver1123 said:
In theory since our troops make the ultimate sacrifice they should get top care. This is also the case in most jobs, my father is a IBEW Electrician has a much better insurance policy than I do because of the dangerous work my father does compared to me in which I run an electronics store.
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No.

A goonion member has better insurance because his mob could extort same from employer who was forbidden by law from replacing people who refused to work.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
No.

A goonion member has better insurance because his mob could extort same from employer who was forbidden by law from replacing people who refused to work.
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Yea my father who served in Vietnam is the same league as a blood or a crip. Go **** yourself asshole.
 
SE102 said:
How ambiguous. How is healthcare not a right?
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No one has a "right" to steal money from someone else to pay their doctor's bills.

That's how it's not a right.

Duh.

SE102 said:
And why would a veteran deserve extended healthcare over a normal citizen, they get paid a wage. Let it come out of their wages.
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Because the veteran did something the "average citizen" refused to do, risk his life in defense of the nation.
 
Groucho said:
Absolutely, and without a doubt they deserve this.

That doesn't suddenly make it not socialism. It just happens to be socialism you agree with.
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Yeah, what makes it not socialism is the fact that the money isn't being stolen to provide unearned benefits, but it in fact part of the debt the government owes former employees who performed a Constitutionally valid and specifically dangerous service.

I swear, people who never wore the nation's uniform want to pretend they too deserve the honors of those of us who did.

Well, you didn't ****ing earn it, buddy.

Earning.

That's why it's not socialism.
 
Catawba said:
So the rationale there is the VA deserves the best? And socialized medicine is the best we can offer them.

Makes sense to me.
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If socialized medicine is the best you can offer someone, wouldn't be easier and cheaper and more expressive of your opinion of them to kick them in the balls, twice?
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Yea my father who served in Vietnam is the same league as a blood or a crip. Go **** yourself asshole.
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Ah, someone living in denial of what goonion history in America is.

It's extortion.

It's monopoly control of violence and labor.

It's denial of property rights.

It's unjust.

It's extremism.

Goonions run California. Doing a nice job, aren't they?

I saw a story today about how the state of Illinois is going to have to cut government jobs to avoid budget shortfalls. The goonions are having none of that. (Study what caused the financial collapse in Greece. Greedy goonions played a major role.)

So, you want to pretend goonions are good, and you're just jealous because you aren't in one. Fine for you.

You spend any time serving in the nation's uniform? Then don't be rude to those of us that did.
 
Catawba said:
So the rationale there is the VA deserves the best? And socialized medicine is the best we can offer them.

Makes sense to me.
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Veterans make up a reletively small percentage of our population. Also, most veterans don't get all of their coverage from the VA depending what they did in the military, how long they were there, and how beat up they got. It's inpractical to use the VA model to cover all of America. It would be far too expensive
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
If socialized medicine is the best you can offer someone, wouldn't be easier and cheaper and more expressive of your opinion of them to kick them in the balls, twice?
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I would think providing them with free medicare care would be optimum. Can we provide more funding to make the care better? Yes. Are you suggesting we provide more funding to provide greater quality of free care? I am in agreement with that.

Or are you proposing to do away with free medical care for the VA (socialized medicine) in order to make them pay for their own care by whatever rates insurance companies choose to charge?

I am opposed to that.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Veterans make up a reletively small percentage of our population. Also, most veterans don't get all of their coverage from the VA depending what they did in the military, how long they were there, and how beat up they got. It's inpractical to use the VA model to cover all of America. It would be far too expensive
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We are the only industrialized nation doesn't have some type of nationalized health care, many of which are not as affluent as our own.

However, they do no not waste a quarter of the money we waste on our military so they can afford to provide affordable health care for their own people.
 
rivrrat said:
The reason the VA needs to be overhauled or replaced isn't because it's "socialist". (it isn't socialist) It's because the men and women who agreed to dedicated part or most of their lives in service to our country deserve GREAT medical care for the rest of their lives. That is one of the boons for military service. (hence why it's not socialist) The VA is not great medical care, and that is the only reason it needs to be replaced/overhauled. It needs to be replaced with something that IS great medical care for our vets.
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Hear Hear!

.
 
VanceMack said:
How exactly do you figure that the VA is socialized medicine? Lifetime healthcare is one of the perks offered to soldiers who accept low pay, insane working conditions, extended deployments, and risk to life and limb. Only an idiotic troll would make such a comparison.
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Look kids, someone who has no understanding of what socialism is.

The VA owns the hospitals. Owns the equipment. Employs the doctors. Controls what procedures are done and when. That is a classic owning the means of production. When the state owns the means of production, that is socialism.
 
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