View Poll Results: The VA should be eliminated because it's Socialized Medicine which is Evil

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Thread: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

  1. #131
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    Ummmm..... There is no such thing as socialized medicine outside of Cuba according to some
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #132
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    Depends what your aim is. If it's to provide the best medical treatment on the planet, Free market is the way to go.

    However, If you want to provide the best medical care in the world, UHC is the only option.
    Are they not the same thing?

    And how do you know that which you state for a fact?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #133
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Are they not the same thing?

    And how do you know that which you state for a fact?
    Good lord, of course it's different. Treatment is the quality of care an average patient gets once admitted to the system. Healthcare is the level of care your average person who is subject to the system recieves.

    Couple of examples;

    Castro got sick, he had access to the very best standard of treament in the world. - But the average cuban wouldn't.

    Ditto for the premier of Newfoundland.

    As apposed to your average Canadian, British, or French, who can walk in, get treated for whatever ails them with a high probability of success, and walk out.

  4. #134
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Shows how backwards we are compared to the rest of the industrialized world.
    No, it simply shows that we have a differant health care service. I'm sure you've heard your mother's argument when you said, "Everyone else is doing it!!" Tat isn't a logical argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why should they, there is a fool born in the US every minute willing to foot the bill for them.
    Alright screw em' fine by me. Let their already high taxes go higher. I'd rather keep more of my money for myself, less for the DOD and less for healthcare
    Last edited by DrunkenAsparagus; 02-25-10 at 01:00 PM.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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  5. #135
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    I've yet to see any numbers that indicate that taxes will go up higher than current insurance premiums.

    If you're insured at work, these premiums are basically taken from your salary, even though it might not seem like it to you. Your boss thinks you're worth X amount. He/she pays you X minus the health insurance he/she pays for you. If suddenly he/she doesn't have to pay that amount any more, you have a very good argument that the money should go to you.

    I'm paying about $3500 a month to cover four people. If we assume a fourth of that is for me, that means I'm paying almost $900 a month for me (or $1800 with my wife). You think my taxes will go up $1800 a month, or $21,600 a year?

    Once more, I have yet to see where any studies have shown that tax increases will be anywhere near that amount.

  6. #136
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin T. Grey View Post
    Good lord, of course it's different. Treatment is the quality of care an average patient gets once admitted to the system. Healthcare is the level of care your average person who is subject to the system receives.

    Couple of examples;

    Castro got sick; he had access to the very best standard of treatment in the world. - But the average Cuban wouldn't.

    Ditto for the premier of Newfoundland.

    As apposed to your average Canadian, British, or French, who can walk in, get treated for whatever ails them with a high probability of success, and walk out.
    I find your explanation confusing.

    It appears you are trying to say that "treatment" is one level of "care" (as in, medical care) quality and "healthcare" is another level of quality.

    Those are just words, and could be defined as multiple things.

    I could say that the current system used in the US provides the best healthcare available anywhere. Treatment is part of that healthcare, not a separate entity, with a different definition.

    I assume you are trying to say that UHC, or some version of it, provides a better overall medical care coverage, for everyone, than the current U.S. system.

    I further assume you are trying to say that the current U.S. system has higher quality of medical care on an individual basis, but not better overall.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  7. #137
    Educator Alvin T. Grey's Avatar
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    Re: Socialized Medicine is Evil, therefore the VA should be eliminated

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post

    I assume you are trying to say that UHC, or some version of it, provides a better overall medical care coverage, for everyone, than the current U.S. system.
    Yes and no.


    I further assume you are trying to say that the current U.S. system has higher quality of medical care on an individual basis,
    It might have a higer concentration of exceptional institutions, lets say the top 5% or so. That's not to say that there are no institutes of excellance in France or Britain, but on average hospital care is the same.

    but not better overall.
    Nope. Because of the medical costs etc much of the really higher end stuff is beyond the reach of the entire population. Which is where insurance companies fit in.

    I'll have to rethink the explaination a little........

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