View Poll Results: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

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  • The Federal Government

    0 0%
  • The Individual States

    3 18.75%
  • There should be a mixture of authority between the two

    13 81.25%
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Thread: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

  1. #11
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    It doesn't matter who makes the decisions as long as they're the right decisions.
    sometimes it's true, sometimes it's false. If this was the case, I doubt we would have need of a seperation of powers between federal and states.

  2. #12
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i believe that it is better to have society follow the majority than society to be forced by the minority.
    So you trade 1 tyrant for many tyrants?

    How can that be morally superior?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So you trade 1 tyrant for many tyrants?

    How can that be morally superior?
    who said anything about morally superior?

    and isn't many tyrants the idea behind democracy?

    i just think it would be better if the state's morals reflect the majority of the population as opposed to a single persons
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  4. #14
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    who said anything about morally superior?

    and isn't many tyrants the idea behind democracy?

    i just think it would be better if the state's morals reflect the majority of the population as opposed to a single persons
    Why is it better?

    What does the majority know that a single person doesn't?
    You know a majority authorized the death of Socrates because they didn't like what he was saying.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #15
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    So the majority is always right? If their ideas and beliefs contradict yours-- if they grossly violate your moral values-- they should get their way because they're the mainstream?

    I can't accept that. History is full of too many cases of mainstream society holding and promoting moral values that I simply cannot abide-- and the people, by and large, are happy to believe in whatever they're told to. If they're going to blindly follow whoever appears to be in charge, if their beliefs are so easily shaped by others, then there's absolutely no reason to respect them.
    You are right that the majority is commonly wrong, but I am just wondering exactly what your alternative is to make decisions for society.

    You can have different views then society, but it is impractical for society to conform to what a minority groups believes too much. You don't need to respect them, but I am sure you understand that majority opinion (even just through representatives) is the best way to make collective decisions.

  6. #16
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    You are right that the majority is commonly wrong, but I am just wondering exactly what your alternative is to make decisions for society.
    Me. Me or my appointed representatives. Or for that matter anyone who, coincidentally or otherwise, implements policies I support. I don't care how it happens and I don't care how many people get hurt in the process-- unless the political process itself is actually more dangerous than the bad policies in question, in which case that needs to be fixed first.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    You don't need to respect them, but I am sure you understand that majority opinion (even just through representatives) is the best way to make collective decisions.
    No, I don't. If the majority is retarded, then majority opinion is proportionally retarded, and any process by which retarded-- inefficient, counterproductive, and/or morally misguided-- opinions are made into law is obviously not the best way to govern. The best way to govern is through any system in which stupid ideas are prevented from becoming law and in which effective solutions are rewarded.

  7. #17
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Me. Me or my appointed representatives. Or for that matter anyone who, coincidentally or otherwise, implements policies I support. I don't care how it happens and I don't care how many people get hurt in the process-- unless the political process itself is actually more dangerous than the bad policies in question, in which case that needs to be fixed first.
    That doesn't address my point of what alternative is there to some process of majority rule.

    Sure, we all want the political process to have results that suit us, but that is not practical, unless you are a dictator.

    Are you proposing that the only just society is one where you are the ultimate leader? It sounds like that you are.

    The problem with that is that there is no checks to make sure that your decisions are helpful for society. Additionally, there is a huge conflict of interest where you would put your own interest above the society, its human nature.

    I can go into the reasons against dictatorship if that is what you really support.

    No, I don't. If the majority is retarded, then majority opinion is proportionally retarded, and any process by which retarded-- inefficient, counterproductive, and/or morally misguided-- opinions are made into law is obviously not the best way to govern. The best way to govern is through any system in which stupid ideas are prevented from becoming law and in which effective solutions are rewarded.
    But how do you prevent stupid ideas from becoming law?

    The choice is either dictatorship, Constitutional restraints on democracy, or democracy.

    Even if you have a Constitution, majority opinion can still change the Constitution.

  8. #18
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    There should be some mixture of the two. Issues which have a national scope should be dealt with on a national level, and issues which have a more localized or regional scope should be dealt with by the states.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #19
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    Re: Social/Ethical issues should be decided by...

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    There should be some mixture of the two. Issues which have a national scope should be dealt with on a national level, and issues which have a more localized or regional scope should be dealt with by the states.
    Or counties, townships, etc...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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