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People Who Smoke Marijuana Are...

People Who Smoke Marijuana Are...


  • Total voters
    97
I was diagnosed as having ADHD by two child psychiatrists and prescribed Ritalin, which I later refused to take. Ritalin was a nightmare and prescribing it to "ADHD" children is immoral.

i agree, my brother was diagnosed with ADD when he was younger, and he hated Ritalin, when he was in his mid teens it was suggested he try fish oil tablets, which worked, it made him concentrate more but without making him depressed and aggravated
 
I have encountered MANY kids who were wrongly given the ADD diagnosis/label, and "un" diagnosed them. Too often ADD is a "garbage can" diagnosis... little Johnny can't focus in class? Give him Ritalin. Most of the time, that's NOT what's going on. Perhaps "little Johnny" is depressed. Perhaps he's anxious (most common mis-diagnosis of ADD). Perhaps he's having trouble at home. Perhaps he has some sort of learning disability. Just slapping an ADD diagnosis on a kid without thorough testing is being LAZY. If I have a kid that comes into my office having been diagnoses with ADD, I NEVER take that at face value; I do my own assessment. 80% of the time, I'd guess, they're not.

My nephew is ADHD(was maybe, we have grown out of touch, so not sure). Ritalin was the difference between him being basically destructive, and being close to in control. While I am certainly not going to argue that ADD/ADHD is not way overdiagnosed, that does not mean it is not a real issue for some people. Thankfully, my nephew seems to finally have his life straitened out to an extent, but his childhood and teen years where a complete nightmare for my sister.
 
Yes, let's look at them. I see nothing there that indicates being bored or being defiant. Thank you for posting the information.





Except that's not how the DSM-IV classifies ADD NOR is it what you posted. So, all you are doing is making stuff up.

That's exactly how it's classified. Children who:

  • Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
  • Has difficulty sustaining attention.
  • Does not appear to listen.
  • Struggles to follow through on instructions.
  • Has difficulty with organization.
  • Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
  • Loses things.
  • Is easily distracted.
  • Is forgetful in daily activities.

...are not psychologically disordered. They just don't like the specific activity which they are being forced to engage in. Put them in front of a video game and suddenly their ADHD disappears. How can a psychological disorder only apply in certain situations?

That's like saying that because people die in auto accidents, cars are "dangerous and life-threatening". :roll: I would think you would understand the difference. Further, you are misrepresenting my position. If someone uses marijuana excessively OR prescription drugs excessively, they are doing something dangerous and life-threatening. If they are not using them excessively, they are not.

I'm not even talking about "excessive" usage of prescription medicine. Hundreds of thousands of people have died from regular usage. How many people have died from excessive marijuana use?

To be clear, I'm not saying marijuana doesn't have any negative health effects (it certainly does) but I think you are exaggerating its dangers. I have literally smoked marijuana thousands of times and I'm intelligent and very athletic. Would I be more intelligent and athletic if I had never smoked marijuana? Certainly possible, but excessive marijuana usage is far less dangerous than regular usage of prescription medicine, which makes your demonization of it unnecessary.
 
For you. Remember to put that at the end of statements like this. For some, without Ritalin, success in academics would be near impossible.

Because we all know success in academics is important enough to prescribe powerful drugs to children.

Perhaps you were not really ADHD.

I met the criteria to a T.

Or perhaps Ritalin was not the right medication.

Why not? While I was on Ritalin I got straight A's and behaved very well in class.

There are several others, some that are NOT stimulants.

Whatever they are, they shouldn't be given to children for "ADHD". The best cure is good parenting.
 
That's exactly how it's classified. Children who:

  • Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
  • Has difficulty sustaining attention.
  • Does not appear to listen.
  • Struggles to follow through on instructions.
  • Has difficulty with organization.
  • Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
  • Loses things.
  • Is easily distracted.
  • Is forgetful in daily activities.
And nothing here about boredom or being defiant/oppositional. The latter is a completely different diagnosis. You are wrong about this.

...are not psychologically disordered. They just don't like the specific activity which they are being forced to engage in. Put them in front of a video game and suddenly their ADHD disappears. How can a psychological disorder only apply in certain situations?

Yeah, they are disordered, if they meet the criteria. And people who are diagnosed as depressed do laugh and enjoy things at times. Folks with psychological disorders are diagnosed based on the consistency/persistence of the symptoms and the amount of distress/problems that these symptoms cause.



I'm not even talking about "excessive" usage of prescription medicine. Hundreds of thousands of people have died from regular usage. How many people have died from excessive marijuana use?

To be clear, I'm not saying marijuana doesn't have any negative health effects (it certainly does) but I think you are exaggerating its dangers. I have literally smoked marijuana thousands of times and I'm intelligent and very athletic. Would I be more intelligent and athletic if I had never smoked marijuana? Certainly possible, but excessive marijuana usage is far less dangerous than regular usage of prescription medicine, which makes your demonization of it unnecessary.

And I disagree. Regular, prescribed usage of prescription medication is far less dangerous than excessive usage of marijuana. With marijuana, when smoked, you have the smoking inhalation issues to content with. You also have the addiction issue to contend with, and issue that does not occur with the vast majority of prescription meds. Also, research certainly shows that excessive use of marijuana causes problems with memory, concentration, and other brain functions. Your glorification of marijuana is completely inaccurate.
 
That's exactly how it's classified. Children who:

  • Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
  • Has difficulty sustaining attention.
  • Does not appear to listen.
  • Struggles to follow through on instructions.
  • Has difficulty with organization.
  • Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
  • Loses things.
  • Is easily distracted.
  • Is forgetful in daily activities.

...are not psychologically disordered. They just don't like the specific activity which they are being forced to engage in. Put them in front of a video game and suddenly their ADHD disappears. How can a psychological disorder only apply in certain situations?



I'm not even talking about "excessive" usage of prescription medicine. Hundreds of thousands of people have died from regular usage. How many people have died from excessive marijuana use?

To be clear, I'm not saying marijuana doesn't have any negative health effects (it certainly does) but I think you are exaggerating its dangers. I have literally smoked marijuana thousands of times and I'm intelligent and very athletic. Would I be more intelligent and athletic if I had never smoked marijuana? Certainly possible, but excessive marijuana usage is far less dangerous than regular usage of prescription medicine, which makes your demonization of it unnecessary.

You forgot to include an important part for the diagnosis:

Additional Requirements for the Diagnosis of ADD/ADHD:

1. The symptoms must be to a degree that is "maladaptive and inconsistent with development level."

This part is highly subjective. Remember: Just because a behavior appears to be maladaptive, it doesn't necessarily mean a child actually has some sort of brain defect, as proved by Thomas Edison's remarkable career after being kicked out of school for his divergent thinking traits. Gifted students may also display behavior that is "maladaptive" but they certainly do not have a disorder or brain defect. Parents and professionals alike should not only judge the child's behavior, but also their own expectations of conformity and convenience. Because children become less impulsive as they get older, a child who is naturally more impulsive than others will appear to be "developmentally behind."

2. "Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings." If a child is only having problems in school, then the DSM IV criteria have not been met. The wording, however, is so vague that just about anything can be considered impairment by someone who is looking for it. If you report that it is difficult to get your child to clean up his room, or that you have a lot of trouble getting him to do his homework, this may be taken as a sign of "some impairment," when both traits are very normal for divergent thinkers. An astute parent, however, can make a solid argument against an ADD diagnosis if he or she has not had significant problems with the child outside of school.

3. "There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic or occupational functioning."

There are some children who really do have severe dysfunction. But if a bright but bored student gets only C's, is that "clinically significant impairment"? Many would argue yes. Others would argue no. It is this ambiguity that can lead to high levels of diagnoses. In Greenwich, Connecticut, one of the wealthiest cities in the U.S., 30% of all school kids have been diagnosed with some type of learning disability, qualifying them for additional school resources like one-on-one tutors.

4. "The symptoms are not better accounted for by another mental disorder." Depression and anxiety are often overlooked in kids, but they can mimic many of the traits of ADD. Inability to concentrate can be severe in kids or adults with depression and anxiety. Sometimes kids are being bullied in school and don't want to tell anyone, so they may become depressed or anxious and can appear to have ADD without hyperactivity.

5. The symptoms that cause impairment must have been present before the age of 7. If your sweet child never had a problem until his third grade teacher insisted he be tested for ADD because he won't sit still, then the DSM IV criteria have not been met. However, in "real life" there are people who acquire ADD as a result of brain trauma.
 
My nephew is ADHD(was maybe, we have grown out of touch, so not sure). Ritalin was the difference between him being basically destructive, and being close to in control.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but your nephew was probably just a brat. I was too...

While I am certainly not going to argue that ADD/ADHD is not way overdiagnosed, that does not mean it is not a real issue for some people. Thankfully, my nephew seems to finally have his life straitened out to an extent, but his childhood and teen years where a complete nightmare for my sister.

It's always about the parent, isn't it? My kid won't listen to me so I'll just lobotomize them with drugs.
 
And I disagree. Regular, prescribed usage of prescription medication is far less dangerous than excessive usage of marijuana. With marijuana, when smoked, you have the smoking inhalation issues to content with. You also have the addiction issue to contend with, and issue that does not occur with the vast majority of prescription meds. Also, research certainly shows that excessive use of marijuana causes problems with memory, concentration, and other brain functions. Your glorification of marijuana is completely inaccurate.

You forgot an important one: people using prescription drugs are monitored by doctors. People who are using marijuana, not so much.
 
I'm not trying to be offensive, but your nephew was probably just a brat. I was too...



It's always about the parent, isn't it? My kid won't listen to me so I'll just lobotomize them with drugs.

No, he was not. The difference was a difference of degree. Trust me, it was there. He did not do what he did because he was a brat, or as my sister put it "a spawn of satan", he did things because he wanted to make things happen. He needed to make things happen in fact.
 
Because we all know success in academics is important enough to prescribe powerful drugs to children.

Absolutely is at times, since, statistically, there is a direct correlation between success in academics and success post-school



I met the criteria to a T.

OK, so perhaps you are ADD.

Why not? While I was on Ritalin I got straight A's and behaved very well in class.

Good. So either it WAS the right medication for you, the side effects you suffered made it the WRONG medication for you, or you are allowing your personal position on this to cloud the rationality of the situation.

I suspect you are not telling us the whole story, but that is your right.



Whatever they are, they shouldn't be given to children for "ADHD". The best cure is good parenting.

Wrong. Good parenting is ALWAYS helpful, but when one is suffering from a psychological disorder, other help needs to be put in place.
 
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You forgot to include an important part for the diagnosis:

Like I said, distress and problematic. Ethereal seems to think that because the criteria sounds like many typical kids, the diagnosis is faulty. What he doesn't understand is that a lot more goes into a diagnosis than just looking at generalized criteria.
 
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And nothing here about boredom or being defiant/oppositional. The latter is a completely different diagnosis. You are wrong about this.

Just because they didn't use the exact same terms as me does not undercut my original point. These "symptoms" are nothing more than a list of things people do when they're uninterested or defiant.

Yeah, they are disordered, if they meet the criteria. And people who are diagnosed as depressed do laugh and enjoy things at times. Folks with psychological disorders are diagnosed based on the consistency/persistence of the symptoms and the amount of distress/problems that these symptoms cause.

How can a psychological disorder disappear completely when you're doing something you enjoy?

And I disagree. Regular, prescribed usage of prescription medication is far less dangerous than excessive usage of marijuana.

Then you're just wrong. There isn't a single proven case of someone dying from excessive marijuana usage (although there is strong evidence it causes cancer), yet there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who have died from regular prescription drug use. If you have some data that disproves these facts I'd be happy to take a look at it.

With marijuana, when smoked, you have the smoking inhalation issues to content with. You also have the addiction issue to contend with, and issue that does not occur with the vast majority of prescription meds. Also, research certainly shows that excessive use of marijuana causes problems with memory, concentration, and other brain functions. Your glorification of marijuana is completely inaccurate.

I'm not glorifying marijuana. It is dangerous (far less dangerous than prescription drug use), just not as dangerous as you think.
 
Absolutely is at times, since, statistically, there is a direct correlation between success in academics and success post-school.

Why does the problem have to be with the child's psyche? Why can't it be the school system or lack of good parenting?

OK, so perhaps you are ADD.

Why? Because I'm not interested in what some authority figure has to say about geometry?

Good. So either it WAS the right medication for you, the side effects you suffered made it the WRONG medication for you, or you are allowing your personal position on this to cloud the rationality of the situation.

I suspect you are not telling us the whole story, but that is your right.

Of course. My personal situation undercuts the status quo so I must be lying.

And what side effects are you talking about? My suffering was a consequence of the drug's intended purpose, not some side effect.

Wrong. Good parenting is ALWAYS helpful, but when one is suffering from a psychological disorder, other help needs to be put in place.

Yes, and this help can only be administered by paid professionals. We need them to fix us, make us right...
 
Just because they didn't use the exact same terms as me does not undercut my original point. These "symptoms" are nothing more than a list of things people do when they're uninterested or defiant.

You do not understand the dynamics of diagnosis. Those symptoms MUST be coupled with a level of distress or problematic behavior that impairs functioning. This is not defiant behavior being described.



How can a psychological disorder disappear completely when you're doing something you enjoy?

The disorder doesn't disappear. Think about it like this. If you have sciatica, the pain may come in waves, or it may happen when you move a certain way. Doesn't change the fact that, even though you may NOT be in pain at times, you still have sciatica. Same thing with a broken leg. Mental illness is SO misunderstood and poorly presented by most lay people, that those who suffer from something get labeled as either "crazy" or "faking"... the latter of which you seem to be doing.



Then you're just wrong. There isn't a single proven case of someone dying from excessive marijuana usage (although there is strong evidence it causes cancer), yet there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who have died from regular prescription drug use. If you have some data that disproves these facts I'd be happy to take a look at it.

And I'm not talking about death. That is not the ONLY negative thing that can occur. You are wrong... regular use of prescription meds, statistically, is far less dangerous than excessive use of marijuana. Plenty of folks are on long term meds with no or minimal side effects. Use marijuana excessively for a long period of time, and you will have a negative reaction.



I'm not glorifying marijuana. It is dangerous (far less dangerous than prescription drug use), just not as dangerous as you think.

Then you're glorifying because it is far more dangerous, in the scenario we are discussing, then prescription drug use.
 
Why does the problem have to be with the child's psyche? Why can't it be the school system or lack of good parenting?

These can be components, of course. But there are certainly valid tests that show that, for some, it is about the child's psyche.



Why? Because I'm not interested in what some authority figure has to say about geometry?

No, that wouldn't do it. If you met the criteria, and it was causing you distress/problems that inhibited your functioning, then the diagnosis was accurate. Since I did not assess you, I have no idea whether it was or not, but the two criteria you mentioned above are not enough.



Of course. My personal situation undercuts the status quo so I must be lying.

I didn't say that. I'm assuming that there is more to the story than you are saying... there always is. It seems that your personal position on this has an impact on your ability to understand how diagnosis work.

And what side effects are you talking about? My suffering was a consequence of the drug's intended purpose, not some side effect.

So, what were your consequences? More ability to focus, better grades, fewer problems in school? Must have been horrible for you. :roll:



Yes, and this help can only be administered by paid professionals. We need them to fix us, make us right...

Since not everyone knows how to do everything, absolutely. If you don't know how to fix your car, you hire a paid professional to fix it.
 
So, what were your consequences? More ability to focus, better grades, fewer problems in school? Must have been horrible for you. :roll:

It was horrible. I felt like a completely different human being when I was on Ritalin, like I lost my soul. That's why I refused to keep taking it.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Cap. I won't be convinced of your position and you certainly won't be convinced of mine. I'll always maintain that ADD is just BS and that prescribing Ritalin to children is wrong.

P.S. - I'm glad you diagnose ADD using a strict criteria, and I don't doubt your altruistic intentions, but I think you would do well to consider the merits of my position and how it pertains to your field.
 
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It was horrible. I felt like a completely different human being when I was on Ritalin, like I lost my soul. That's why I refused to keep taking it.

Then you had some negative side effects. If you reported them and the psychiatrists who were prescribing didn't do anything, they did you a disservice.

You sound like someone who would walk in my office with an ADD diagnosis, and walk out with a correct diagnosis. If Ritalin changed you THAT much, either you were not ADD or you were prescribed the wrong medication.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Cap. I won't be convinced of your position and you certainly won't be convinced of mine. I'll always maintain that ADD is just BS and that prescribing Ritalin to children is wrong.

Nope, you are not going to convince me. This reminds me of our debate 6 or 7 months ago on DADT. We are coming from two completely different disciplines and two completely different experiences. With kids how are correctly diagnosed, I have seen medications like Ritalin do very well.

P.S. - I'm glad you diagnose ADD using a strict criteria, and I don't doubt your altruistic intentions, but I think you would do well to consider the merits of my position and how it pertains to your field.

Here's the thing, Ethereal. You skipped over some information I placed in some of my posts. I UNdiagnose a great many kids who were slapped with an ADD diagnosis incorrectly... about 80% of all clients that walk through my door with ADD, leave without that diagnosis. It is, probably the most overused diagnosis in psychology. Also, along with medication, either I, or a specialist who works in my practice, helps to teach kids skills to deal with this diagnosis so that they do not need to take much medication... or none at all. Seems to be that you are more anti-medication than anti-ADD. One reason y'all see me on DP so late is because I spend a HUGE amount of time helping my clients so that their need for medication is minimal. I was actually working during a break from posting, tonight, managing an emergency (1:30 AM). I see the merits in your position, but it is not as black and white as you seem to be presenting it.
 
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[/LIST]And I disagree. Regular, prescribed usage of prescription medication is far less dangerous than excessive usage of marijuana. With marijuana, when smoked, you have the smoking inhalation issues to content with. You also have the addiction issue to contend with, and issue that does not occur with the vast majority of prescription meds. Also, research certainly shows that excessive use of marijuana causes problems with memory, concentration, and other brain functions. Your glorification of marijuana is completely inaccurate.

Ignoring the smoking issues, what is the addiction issue with marijuana? I don't believe it is addictive.

Problems with marijuana causing issues with memory, concentration and other brain functions are all temporary. These issues only last as long as you are high, then return.
 
Guy walks into a casino. All he has on him is $20. He plays blackjack and craps and in 6 hours, turns the $20 into $2000. "See... you can turn a small backroll into something huge" he boasts. This happens... more often than just once. It still does not disprove the rule that if you walk into a casino with a small backroll, you will walk out with a smaller one... if any at all.

Getting high causes impairment. That's what it's SUPPOSED TO DO and why people do it. When one is impaired they do not function at their optimal level. And, in fact, their impairment can easily make them be in denial about this... kinda like "beer muscles". Also why a rational, sane person will get behind the wheel of a car, believing that they can drive just as well when "impaired".

I don't like your casino example, as it varies the outcome, time after time. I think we can say the the response of an individual to smoking weed is more consistent.

Yes, it causes impairment. And that is the point, you are right. But impairment is not all a bad thing is my point. There are benefits to smoking and getting high. The altering of brain chemistry to give an altered mental state is not a negative thing. It is really disturbing how the puritanical thread in America denies that.
 
People like to blame their own short coming on drugs and alcohol. that just redirects the guilt. the problem is your head, not the drugs. :cool:
 
I don't like your casino example, as it varies the outcome, time after time. I think we can say the the response of an individual to smoking weed is more consistent.

Yes, it causes impairment. And that is the point, you are right. But impairment is not all a bad thing is my point. There are benefits to smoking and getting high. The altering of brain chemistry to give an altered mental state is not a negative thing. It is really disturbing how the puritanical thread in America denies that.
are you high right now? the response of an individual smoking weed is as varied as we are as individuals.

don't get me wrong, i don't believe it's any more harmful than alcohol, but really, impairment isn't a bad thing?
 
I have encountered MANY kids who were wrongly given the ADD diagnosis/label, and "un" diagnosed them. Too often ADD is a "garbage can" diagnosis... little Johnny can't focus in class? Give him Ritalin. Most of the time, that's NOT what's going on. Perhaps "little Johnny" is depressed. Perhaps he's anxious (most common mis-diagnosis of ADD). Perhaps he's having trouble at home. Perhaps he has some sort of learning disability. Just slapping an ADD diagnosis on a kid without thorough testing is being LAZY. If I have a kid that comes into my office having been diagnoses with ADD, I NEVER take that at face value; I do my own assessment. 80% of the time, I'd guess, they're not.
or, as my son's psychologist diagnosed......"he's just not motivated"......which was exactly the correct diagnosis.

no add, no adhd, at that point, my son just didn't care about school.
 
Yeah, I voted not my concern. However, I definitely judge someone who smokes pot. While it may be deemed as equivalent to drinking, drinking is legal and smoking pot, much less having it in one's possession, is illegal. I would seriously consider leaving my husband if he started smoking pot. I just can't respect someone who smokes pot. I'd be lying if I said otherwise.
 
A quick pot story, and a lesson on Human behavior. the first Concert I smoked pot at, was years ago. Nobody smoked pot at concerts here yet, so people shunned me, and even moved away. A few decades later I gave pot up for a while just to see where I was without it's influence. ---so at the next concert I went to, people shunned me and moved away from me, because I didn't smoke with them. I found the whole thing to be amusing, but telling.
 
There are a few problems associated with marijuana. First of all, rolling papers are too costly. When I somoked my first joint they were two packs for anickle and now they are two dollars a pack [just kidding]:roll:

The pot available today is about ten times as strong as the pot from the sixties. Who knows what type of weird chemicals a dealer might use to stretch it out and what the effects would be.

Kids now days smoke blunts, a flavored cigar wrapper stuffed with pot. One blunt with top grade pot could derail a train. And there is the ever present bong for an extra kick.

Who needs that? You might as well be sniffing glue when you abuse it like some people do. Pot is like salt to some people. They need it to get through life but too much is unhealthy.

So remember, don't Bogart the joint.:roll:
 
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