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Birthers and Truthers

Check all that apply.

  • If you are a truther, then you are an idiot and a nutjob, and have no credibility.

    Votes: 23 88.5%

  • If you are a birther, then you are an idiot and a nutjob, and have no credibility.

    Votes: 24 92.3%

  • Being a truther is a perfectly reasonable position to hold.

    Votes: 3 11.5%

  • Being a birther is a perfectly reasonable position to hold.

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Total voters
    26
None of them apply. People who normally think along these lines tend to be highly idealistic and feel powerless.
The choices offered in the poll are the opposite ends of the extreme, and people don't generally fit neatly into extreme categories.
 
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lizzie said:
None of them apply. People who normally think along these lines tend to be highly idealistic and feel powerless.
The choices offered in the poll are the opposite ends of the extreme, and people don't generally fit neatly into extreme categories.
Click to expand...

I agree with Lizzie on this one. There are obvious elements to both movements that would make Howard Hughes seem sane, there are also people who are quite sane and have a very rational reason for their distrust and might have more or less information about the subject than most do. There are also people in between.
 
lizzie said:
None of them apply. People who normally think along these lines tend to be highly idealistic and feel powerless.
The choices offered in the poll are the opposite ends of the extreme, and people don't generally fit neatly into extreme categories.
Click to expand...

That is a symptom of being a nutjob though. Its like saying that people that are depressed feel sad, or that psychotic people have trouble differentiating what is and is not real.

It seems to me that if you believe that Obama is not a citizen, or that 9/11 was a government conspiracy, then basically you have a type of psychosis going because you are having trouble with reality. Thus, of course you feel powerless on one extreme, or like you are on a special mission to get the word out about this on the other. Those are symptoms of being a nutjob though. I just don't see where it helps a psychotic to humor them.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
It seems to me that if you believe that Obama is not a citizen, or that 9/11 was a government conspiracy, then basically you have a type of psychosis going because you are having trouble with reality.
Click to expand...

Not at all. Believing something that is not proven is certainly a normal phenomenon in the human race.
 
My thoughts are split on this one.

The truthers I tend to give more slack. There are a lot of things about 9/11 in general that look pretty weird if you dont have the training or education to really parse what you see. Plus you have idiots like Alex Jones stoking the fire and its easy to get caught up in it. I still think many truthers have an axe to grind with "the government" so they tend to let weak areas of the argument slide and the tendency to ignore pertinent information or more plausible explanations is rampant among that group.

Birthers on the other hand have NO alibi. Every facet of the birther mantra has been absolutely and unequivocally demolished for all to see and if you're still a birther after that, you arent being intellectually honest.
 
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lizzie said:
Not at all. Believing something that is not proven is certainly a normal phenomenon in the human race.
Click to expand...


What leads you to the conclusion that either case is not proven?
 
Hoplite said:
My thoughts are split on this one.

The truthers I tend to give more slack. There are a lot of things about 9/11 in general that look pretty weird if you dont have the training or education to really parse what you see. Plus you have idiots like Alex Jones stoking the fire and its easy to get caught up in it. I still think many truthers have an axe to grind with "the government" so they tend to let weak areas of the argument slide and the tendency to ignore pertinent information or more plausible explanations is rampant among that group.

Birthers on the other hand have NO alibi. Every facet of the birther mantra has been absolutely and unequivocally demolished for all to see and if you're still a birther after that, you arent being intellectually honest.
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I think every single point you've raised about 9/11 could be applied to the birthers, just like every point you've raised about the birthers could be applied to the truthers.

I honestly can't see how one is any more or less ridiculous than the other.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
That is a symptom of being a nutjob though. Its like saying that people that are depressed feel sad, or that psychotic people have trouble differentiating what is and is not real.

It seems to me that if you believe that Obama is not a citizen, or that 9/11 was a government conspiracy, then basically you have a type of psychosis going because you are having trouble with reality. Thus, of course you feel powerless on one extreme, or like you are on a special mission to get the word out about this on the other. Those are symptoms of being a nutjob though. I just don't see where it helps a psychotic to humor them.
Click to expand...

That's overly harsh I think, as it pertains to certain people. Many young people are easily taken be these things while others just have a passing theory about it, still, others are just ignorant, but that doesn't make them a psychotic nutjob.

I think the people you are trying to isolate and ridicule are the hardliners who propagate the core agenda of each movement, and even then I wouldn't call them psychotic nutjobs, instead, I would classify them as one of two things; a pathological liar or mildly delusional.

P.S. - Or a troll!
 
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lizzie said:
Not at all. Believing something that is not proven is certainly a normal phenomenon in the human race.
Click to expand...

Most of the time people believe these things aren't proven because of ignorance or refusal to acknowledge the massive amounts of evidence supporting a claim. Example. There is no doubt we've been to the moon. But the only proof some people will take is actually being put on the moon by NASA and seeing the flag, and footprints and the rover themselves. Nothing else will satisfy such people. It doesn't matter how much evidence you provide supporting the fact we've been to the moon. Unless they themselves see it for themselves they simply will not believe it. That is an example of a verifiable fact being refused by a fringe minority.

On the other extreme, there are people who can not provide any hard evidence proving the existence of whatever universal being they believe in but expect everyone to believe in it. And billions do. They believe it so hard that they give money to churches, mosques, temples and synagogs. All of this without physical evidence proving their claims.

The reactions human race can be quite weird when it comes to "evidence".
 
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