View Poll Results: You can't spend your way out of a recession

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  • Agree, you can't (generally)

    42 44.68%
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Thread: You can't spend your way out of a recession

  1. #81
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Created or saved 2 million jobs. Created or SAVED 2 million jobs. Created or ...SAVED...2 million jobs.

    No new job creation. temporarily avoided layoffs with creating a change in the failed tax and spend policies of local, state and federal governments. Shovel ready projects for businesses with people already employed.

    No new job creation. Governments now deeper in debt. Another trillion or two dumped into the national debt.

    Private sector creates economic growth...NOT the federal government.
    So you also agree with Goobieman's position that government funding cannot create jobs?

    Tell me, what effect did spending trillions on defense during Reagan's years have upon the defense industry?

    If you think that the government cannot create jobs by spending, you must think that the defense industry did not expand, did not increase salaries, did not increase demand for raw materials and did not fund research which employed thousands.

    This forum is an excellent piece of evidence that America's public schools have utterly failed.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #82
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's mostly because China had the surplus to do exactly that. They had savings. The U.S. didn't. That's the problem.
    Which doesn't address my point. Spending by itself can create temporary and in some cases permanent growth. The fools here arguing otherwise have chosen to ignore historical examples proving they are wrong. While deficit spending financed by debt can and has proven to be dangerous when idiots are the helm, it does not change the basic fact that government spending has been historically proven to be capable of ending recessions and increasing demand.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #83
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is a reading comprehension failure on your part -- I said no such thing.

    -You- can run away now.
    Except that is exactly what you claimed.

    Let's examine your words: "If you mean government spending, then no. All this does is run up debt, leading to bigger problems down the road."

    You STATED government spending cannot end a recession. Except in my examples, government spending did just that. You stated that government spending only leads to more debt, not economic growth. Therefore, I ask you to defend your argument in the presence of historical examples. And watch, you run away from defending your argument. Typical.

    Frankly speaking, phattonez is decades past you in understanding economics and he doesn't disagree with me.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #84
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Germany was a boom economy that would have succumbed to a bust had it had enough time to run its course. China will be the same way. The US during WWII did not have a growing economy. Sure, you may see GDP growing and economic indicators being great for the period, but it sucked to live through that. People were dying and goods were rationed. I wouldn't exactly point out war as a good example of how to grow your economy.
    The US in WWII saw actual employment growth. Tell me how that's still a recession.

    As for the other two, you are merely discussing after maths, which I don't disagree with. China is going to have a real problem with valuation if it doesn't slam on the breaks.

    I'm still waiting for some of the economic illiterates here to argue in the face of historical examples that government spending cannot be used to get out of a recession. Notice that both Vance and Goobieman won't even touch the examples.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #85
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    What kind of government spending, specifically, do you think can end a recession?
    Personally, I think infrastructure spending would be the best way.

    You get the benefit of creating jobs and you're creating/improving things for society to use in the future.

    This would have been a great time to improve our bridges, our energy infrastructure (we lose a LOT of energy through inefficiencies in the system), and to create new infrastructures that improve travel and mobility in major cities, their suburbs, and connecting cities.

    Just a thought.

    Edited to add: Spending on technological research would be good too.
    Last edited by FilmFestGuy; 02-18-10 at 01:22 AM.

  6. #86
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    The US in WWII saw actual employment growth. Tell me how that's still a recession.
    If you have a government that only allows jobs that produce war goods and the government pays for all those jobs you'll have full employment but your economy will blow.

    I'm still waiting for some of the economic illiterates here to argue in the face of historical examples that government spending cannot be used to get out of a recession. Notice that both Vance and Goobieman won't even touch the examples.
    I can't speak for them. They haven't delved into the economics of it enough.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #87
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So you also agree with Goobieman's position that government funding cannot create jobs?
    It can, but what's the value of a job unless it's producing wealth?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #88
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So you also agree with Goobieman's position that government funding cannot create jobs?

    Tell me, what effect did spending trillions on defense during Reagan's years have upon the defense industry?

    If you think that the government cannot create jobs by spending, you must think that the defense industry did not expand, did not increase salaries, did not increase demand for raw materials and did not fund research which employed thousands.

    This forum is an excellent piece of evidence that America's public schools have utterly failed.
    But the defense industry is dependant on Government, because you and I do not buy aircraft carriers, or satellites, or war planes, they have no real demand for their product.

    The defence industry did not increase in size because they built container ships for commerce, they didn't get bigger because they produced planes for private air travel.

    The defence industry cannot produce jobs, without first taking your money in taxes and then the money being funnelled to them via the government.

    The USSR also produced jobs, but obviously you cannot see the difference in job creation steming from the private sector, responding to the needs of the market and job creation that only survives so long as the citizen is taxed.

  9. #89
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay genius, tell me, you are stating that government spending for WWII had no impact upon the economy. Furthermore, you are also stating that the rebirth of the German economy prior to WWII was not based on government spending. Furthermore, you are explicitly arguing that China's emergence from its recession had nothing to do with the large stimulus China's government passed.

    You can run away now.

    The German economy was not the rosy picture under Hitler. Centralised planning led to rationing, due to most of the economy being dedicated towards the military.

    What kind of person suggests that economy has recovered when individuals must use ration coupons?

  10. #90
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    Re: You can't spend your way out of a recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And you can back this up? Using a theory from an economic school of thought that cannot even explain how businesses emerge/function within the economy?

    Good luck! You are going to need it! If you can achieve this, they will call it the mises/toney institute....
    And yet the Chicago School has one of several competing theories that explain why people form companies or businesses.

    If someone generates a theory on subject A, their inability to develop or the lack of interest in developing a theory on subject B, does not invalidate the theory behind subject A.

    You normally invalidate argument A, via debate, analysis, logic, deduction, etc.

    Yes, the Chicago School has tried to develop theories for just about every subject and area of economics. Good for them, man kind benefits from this endeavor. But the Austrians School of lack of 'covering the field' does not automatically repudiate or tarnish their theories.
    Last edited by Australianlibertarian; 02-18-10 at 08:23 AM.

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